Sparky Imeson's Accident

[N1277D]

Sparky Imeson accident in the Elk Horn Mountains was reported recently in the Helena News. The link is http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/0 ... aadown.txt

[GAHorn]

Another report on this from AOPA.

http://www.aopa.org/members/070607imeson.html

Ya gotta wonder how a self-proclaimed mountain-flying ex-spurt can intentionally lead a client/student go up a blind-canyon and let the excersize continue to the point of no return and then let the client mismanage the recovery...and on top of all that, allow the impression it's anyone's fault but his own. If I led someone into such an experience I would not allow the client to take any blame whatsoever for my failure to protect him.
Didn't know downdrafts occur in mountains? No kidding! And he's an ex-spurt.
And, Oh yeah...leave your ELT at home Mr. Exspurt. And also, leave the scene of the crash so the searchers have no idea of where to find you.

(Am I being too rough on him? I consider one of the main jobs of an instructor is to protect the persons/property of the client and this sure looks like malpractice to me. What do you guys think?)

[HA]

I don't think you're too rough on him, you're in the same business and know the drill

the instructor's job is to provide the student with the tools and knowledge to use them for whatever situation you're hired to instruct on.

obviously they both got a little too confident, apparently that can happen to anyone even the mighty. that's the big lesson for the rest of us, IMHO

[N1277D]

There was another accident a few years ago in which a student mountain pilot overpowered a flight instructor resulting in two fatalities. The student had several hundred hours, a pvt pilot an some experience in the mountains. They were dropping mail at root ranch and from all indications he stalled the airplane and the instructor was pushing forward hard enough to break both of her arms. You never can tell what a student will do in a bad situation or how an instructor will respond when things get bad.

[Robert Eilers]

In the early seventies I was one those who pioneered the Sierra Academy foriegn student program. In the early days students actually arrived in the United States for flight training not speaking a single word of english. I found myself wrestling for the controls more than once - I had the best results with a good backhand. Overhead speaker - hand held mike - shouting in the cockpit over the noise of flight - using hand signals to get the student to understand - never again.

[sphillips]

Mr. Imeson got a checkout in our C172-180, and our Hawk XP. Next thing you know, we see our aircraft in pictures on the internet in the backcountry of Idaho advertising his back country business. Needless to say, he wasnt allowed to rent our aircraft anymore.

[blueldr]

He also "wrote" a book on mountain flying which I bought, since he was touted to be such an expert on the subject. After about a half hour of reading, I was so pissed off that I called him and demanded my money back, It was the sorriest bunch of BS I ever read. However, to his credit, my money was retutned.
George, I thoroughly concur with your take on the subject.
Along the same lines, there is a "Mountain, Canyon" flying course "perpetrated" out of McCall, ID, that absolutely refuses to accept the normal responsibilities of an instructor. They ride along, for a serious price, and tell you what to do. They have been "passengers" in a goodly number of "incidences" that have resulted in badly busted airplanes. I can remember a couple at Sulfur Creek Ranch in ID, and a gear up Mooney at Landmark in ID, as examples.
In the above mentioned crash at the Root Ranch in ID, the female "instructor" and the other pilot were both killed trying to drop a sack of cookies. The people at the "Mountain, Canyon" flying seminars claim that the lady "instructor" was over powered by her "student".
I have to assume that they received that information during a "seance" from the great beyond.

[N1277D]

I agree with Dick on the history of the mountain flying seminar out of McCall, thay have had a few accidents, including a Husky that went over on its back trying to land at Vines (?). I personally would not take the flight training they offer, but I've heard their ground school is acceptable. Their courses are designed for people that have little or no expereince in the backcountry. In my opinion, their approach to short field landings puts way too much stress on an airplane, steep approach, slam it on, add power to arrest the decent. It works -- Its ok in a rental, but not in one of mine.

My experience is that Dick is an excellent backcounty pilot and can do a far better job teaching people how to fly the Idaho backcountry than most, including the McCall group. Sparky's book is an introduction to ground school, that can help some.

I heard the root ranch mail story from one of her students, it seems to make sense from what I know about the conditions at the time. She was one of the better backcountry flight instructors, (20,000+ hrs in the backcountry) was around long before they started up the McCall Mountain Flying Seminars and taught a few of my friends how to fly from solo to getting into cabin creek.

What worried me the most was seeing people with Sparky's and Galen's Books heading into a short high altitude strip. Like the time we saw a tri-pacer at Smiley Creek fully loaded trying to get into Atlanta, with no idea what they were getting into. I am always reluctant to recommend a strip to someone, thinking they might end up in an accident there, like lower loon creek, etc. The courses and books are helpful but one wonders how many accidents have resulted or if they would have been better off to just find a local to show them how to get in and out of a place.

[GAHorn]

In the early seventies I was one those who pioneered the Sierra Academy foriegn student program. In the early days students actually arrived in the United States for flight training not speaking a single word of english. I found myself wrestling for the controls more than once - ....

About the same time-frame (early '70's) I taught a group of non-English-speaking Japanese students. It was a similar experience, but I recall one of them, Ichiro Fujita, who simply could not get-it .... when to "flare" coming across the thresh-hold. We cracked the pavement many times.
On one such occasion I grabbed the yoke at the last possible moment and yelled "You crazy Kamikaze!" ... and he suddenly stared at me with a big-eyed look of shock...then grinned! He got it!
He suddenly began making beautiful landings, and I soloed him two days later.


Ps- (We became best-friends and he learned English and I learned enough Japanese to order meals and get along with Onsen Geisha.)
Ichiro introduced me to the president of Japan Air Lines, Capt. Ito, who had employed him as a personal pilot on his return to Japan. (He flew his Falcon 10 on antiquities search flights.) Unfortunately, Ichiro died in 1983 of stomach cancer. I miss him.

[Robert Eilers]

My favorite student was among the first group of Japanese students to arrive at Sierra. His name was Herosiro Watanabe. He was an amazing student and progressed quickly despite the language difficulty. We exchanged letters for a little while and have since lost touch with one another. I often wonder what became of Herosiro.

For a while there in the early 70s Sierra was like a small United Nations. I found working with the foriegn students very interesting and rewarding.
The foriegn sudents provided a fresh perspective on many things we take for granted. I remember my first flight with one of the Japanese students in the first group with Watanabe - I no longer remember his name. During climb out from Oakland he began shouting "Heroshima", "Heroshima". Then I realized he was pointing at the B-29 parked on the ramp.

[Indopilot]

I once flew a couple of Japanese exchange students around Mt St Helens as a favor for friends who were hosting them. When I asked who wanted to be co-pilot, one was all grins and jumped fwd. The other just stood looking worried.
We had a good smooth flight, my copilot did a good job when I let him fly, but not much from the back seat. After pulling up to the hanger , co-pilot hopped out all grins. Rear seat had curled into a tight fetal position. We had to literally pick him up and out of the plane then prop him against the tire till he relaxed enough to unfold enough to hobble with assistance to the car. never did find out what scared him so badly. I'm sure it wasn't my face.

[N2520V]

I've been all over the area where this crash occurred elk hunting over the years. It's about 15 minutes flying from my home airport. Awfully rough country. I flew up and took a look at the crash site in the very early morning last week with another much more experienced mountain pilot. Those guys are darned lucky to be alive. After seeing the site and reading the "official" version of events, all I can do is scratch my head. Makes you go hmmmm...

[MontanaBird]

Well guys, I think we all know that things happen fast, sometimes in a bad way, in these doggone airplanes.

My initial response was very similar to the thread presented to date. But then I realized that I wasn't there, did not know the real details of the crash, and that most of these situations are a result of many different factors, all unfortunately happening at the wrong time.

I do know that when I have instructed from the rear seat of a taildragger, that I really had to pay attention. Mainly due to the lack of instruments, the occasional inability to see the horizon correctly (which is sometimes very difficult in the mountains....), and the significantly different 'visual cues' that one has to use. And, I found that when it was hot, or rough, or my student was maybe not having a good day, I really had to stay on it. And, this was frequently in the back country; in Montana, or similar.

Can one fly up canyons safely? Sure, particularly in a Husky, but give yourself enough room for that turnaround in any situation. Does the weather have to be right, of course it does.

So my view is that I am going to gather more data, try not to pre-judge, really find out what happened, analyze, and decide. Hey, maybe he blew it. I know I have come close a few times, and perhaps was just lucky to come out of it ok. But, the good thing is that they are both alive, have learned a brutal lifelong lesson, and will hopefully fly again. We how know these things go.


Montana Bird

[pif_sonic]

MontanaBird, Thank you for having an open mind unlike some of the other people on this forum.

I have stewed over this thread since I first read it. I first heard of the accident on the Backcountry site. I was amazed; I did not read any negative things on that site. They all talked about learning from it, were the two pilots ok, what type of training, and what survival gear was needed in that type of flying. I look on the 170 site and the second post regarding this accident was so negative and disrespectful, IT *ticked* ME OFF.

Yes, you know who I am talking about. Who do you think you are, are you the best pilot out there, have you never made a mistake in an airplane. I only have 500 hours and I know I have made a lot of mistakes in an airplane. I can only hope that I learn from them or I catch the mistake before I get hurt or crash the plane. The guy who gave me my check ride told me, after I passed my check ride, “This is a license to learn, be safe and have fun.” I also agree with MontanaBird in regards to a chain of events, or several different factors, that cause an accident. If you can break one link in that chain the accident will not occur.

With that in mind I do not think we stop learning with 3000, 5000 or even 10,000 hours. Well maybe some stop learning!!!! People with your attitude are very irritating. I understand your type of personality; I deal with people like you at work all the time. You can not help it; it’s just the way you are. I hope I was not too hard on you.

I am just glad both pilots made it out of that accident alive. I also hope we can all learn from it. But lets not bad mouth either pilot on a situation that we were not involved in. None of us were in the airplane.


At the very respectful request of a member I have edited my post so there are no names mentioned as who I am talking about.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

In the case of Sparky trying to walk out I can easily see how I might have made that choice. I've had a couple of injuries from motorcycle wrecks including a fracture, and kept on riding. Not a wise decision, but at the time the adrenaline was flowing and I wasn't feeling the pain. I'm sure Sparky was in a similar state, he probably felt he was in fine shape to hike the short distance to a nearby town immediatly after the wreck, and I have no doubt that on that first evening he felt the severity of his condition. It's also easy to overlook a persons state of mind when they are in situations like that, shock, both physical and emotional can drastically alter a persons decision process. Faced with the same situation under the same conditions of duress I'd be willing to bet ten of us would do ten different things, which ones would be right.........I would prefer not to find out.

I was just glad this story had a happy ending, unfortunately they rarely do.