Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:Initial contact; Philly tower, Cessna N7A
Tower: Cessna N7A is it?
Me: Tower, Cessna N7A 8 miles north at 1300 would like to transition class B to Millville.
Tower: N7A say full call sign.
Me: Tower, N7A is my full call sign.
Tower: N7A roger. What type of Cessna are you?
Me:Tower, 7A is a Cessna 170.
Tower: Roger 7A, clear through the Philly Class B as requested.
Note I never dropped my full call sign N7A until tower recognized N7A as my full call sign.
Bruce, are you confident ATC dropped the “November” on subsequent contacts? The reason I ask is in your example, the controller was facing a problem of how to address N7A... as the AIM specifies: “
ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established.”
The ONLY way for ATC to comply with that procedure is to ALWAYS use the full call sign of Bruce’s A-model on each call. “
Cessna November Seven Alpha...” even on subsequent calls.
N8293A wrote:On initial call I always just state, “Chicago center N8293A”. At busy atc radar facilities that is all that is needed to make initial contact. Since our type doesn’t have an approved, atc recognized, type name the use of November is preferred, and I always use the aircrafts full call sign on initial call up, the controller should also. The FAA 7110.65 states full call sign must be used on initial call up, then may be abbreviated on subsequent calls. After initial contact is established and when queried about my type I state that I am a “Cessna one seven zero”. I am still usually referred to as a Skyhawk, oh well I’ve been called worse.
I always make my initial call: “Houston Center, Cessna November 146 Yankee Sierra....”. They repeat back to me “N146YS say type Cessna and request”
And they seem to know I’m not a “SkyHawk” because I can’t recall any ATC specialist referring to me as one, regardless of which facility/sector I’m in. When pointing me out to other aircraft they simply refer to me as “a single Cessna”.
It’s important for those few of us that cross ADIZ’s to use “November” to identify nationality... or at least I think it’s important. I always did so but last flew internationally over a decade ago so maybe I’m out of currency of that ...
In any case, the examples of what we individually do (as posted here) are not necessarily “correct” simply because we got away with it, and that’s the point... it took my student to bring me up-to-date and make me go read that thick AIM
current version... and I was curious how ATC, FAA, AIM, the so-called “authorities” came to the conclusion that a generic “Cessna” is sufficiently useful for them to disregard the nationality info on initial call....or were they just trying to point out my fallibility (more subtly than you guys.)
Here’s the AIM (section 4-2-4 para 3) on this matter of
initial calls as it pertains to call signs:
Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix “N” is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
EXAMPLE-
Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit “Experimental” after initial contact).
Air Taxi or other commercial operators not having FAA authorized call signs should prefix their normal identification with the phonetic word “Tango.”
EXAMPLE-
Tango Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.
Hey, Steve!... why does ATC want to know if it’s air taxi or “commercial”?? What special handling occurs ?