freedom of flight

russ murri · Post by **russ murri** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:52 am

I just returned from Washington D. C. There is no such thing as freedom of flight to those flyers back there. It is very sad. rented a 2002 172 with instructor, havent been on training wheels for 5 years.. boring ... had auto pilot,180 horse,elec flaps,elec trim leather a flying slug. realy makes you love the 170 even more. sorry I digress. had to file flight plan contact after off the ground held our hand the whole time... We are very lucky out here in the west. I went for a ride today and only talked to the tower to leave the area then was on my own the rest of the flight till time to come home. My transponder has been dead for three years one day I'll get a new one... To tell you the truth it scared the -ell out of me thinking that flying could be that way all over this great land.. Russ

Mike Smith · Post by **Mike Smith** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:51 pm

Blessed we are, vigilant we should stay.

Mike Smith
1950 C-170A

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:05 pm

Absolutely!

The prez's visit this weekend to Kennebunkport, ME has created one of those 30mi. TFRs up here. It closes a bunch of airports including Hampton, NH. I'm sure the Fokker Dr.1 triplane and all the antiques that fly out of that grass strip are a REAL threat to national security.

But hey, if Snoopy could never get the Red Baron, then maybe we *should* be worried.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:33 pm

Vigilant yes, stupid no. The 30 mile TFRs around the prez are ridiculous as are the 3 mile, 3000 foot TFRs around major league baseball, major college and pro football and pro racing which was made a law by congress bowing to special interest groups namely the owners of said teams.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:47 pm

I think most of the reason for the TFR's is to give people a warm fuzzy feeling. Here in the Puget Sound area of western Washington,we have 4 of them,over 4 different Navy installations. They're a bit of a pain in the you-know-what,especially the one over Bangor submarine base--it's 5 nm radius,surface to 5000'. The others are 2 & 3 nm radius,surface to 2000 or 3000'. One is right off the east end of the runway at my airport,no straight-in arrivals or departures. But we've learned to live with it.
Matter of fact,I'm surprised we've been able to fly over the sub base and the Navy munitions base near my airport without any restrictions in the past. There's some serious stuff there--like nukes at Sub-base Bangor ("we can neither confirm nor deny...."--yeah,right!) and Tomahawk cruise missiles at Naval Magazine Indian Island.
Ah,the price of freedom.......

Eric

dkalwishky · Post by **dkalwishky** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:37 pm

After reading this, it makes me appriciate all that much more how easy we have it in the Midwest. I'm in Iowa and I don't have to deal with any of this stuff....

Dave

Thu Jun 12, 2003 10:20 pm

Dave, if we aren't "vigilant" and make our vioce heard, personally or through the alphabet groups, there will be TFRs coming to a neiborhood near you. Even in Iowa.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:40 am

I don't mind some flight restrictions,even if it is just to give people a warm & fuzzy feeling,if they make some kinda sense & are reasonable. But then again,I've been dealing with 2,3 & 5 nm radius TFR's,NOT 30 miles! That's a bit much! What was the size of the old restricted areas around Camp David & similar places?
The sporting event TFR's are also too muc ,lots of time Flight Service doesn't even know when they are in effect. You just have to read your local paper's sports section,I guess.....

Eric

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:15 am

Eric
Camp David (P40) is the same size about 8 miles I think. When the Prez is there by notam it grows to about twice the size.

I have to disagree with you I can't stand any restrictions regardless how warm and fuzzy if makes people feel. Most I talk to don't even know that our freedom has been restricted. How could they feel warm and fuzzy?

I'd like to see a restriction on those tractor trailers rumbling down the highway with who knows what inside. I know they are more dangerous. We'll call them TTRs for temporary truck restrictions. Rotate them around with the Prez, nuclear plants and major sporting events. Think the public will stand for that?

dkalwishky · Post by **dkalwishky** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:21 am

Bruce; you are absolutly right! I think the TFR's are a load of crap. It's a typical knee jerk reaction to a situation, made by people who d not really understand.

Since there is a SMALL population of us that fly and are effected, most people don;t see it as a problem. I agree, lets start banning semis and putting restrictions on them so everyone else can see what it deels like

Dave

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:34 am

And let's not forget about the cargo containers that arrive via ship in our ports every day by the thousands and only 1 or 2 percent of them are actually checked out. I agree with the tractor trailer comments too..... Some of you may have heard about the "Big Dig" in Boston where they are putting I-93 underground through the city. Well, we had our first major accident in there just over a week ago. A tractor trailer managed to jacknife and shut down the north bound side of the highway IN the tunnel. Now, do you think the public gave any thought to what might have happened if that had been a terrorist with a nuke in the trailer? I doubt it. But hey, better keep those banner towers from overflying stadiums

Sorry.... just need to vent.

FYI, Kennebunkport - P-67 is 2 miles across - at least it USED to be.

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:48 am

Even in wide-open Texas, ...when Dudya is having a photo-op cuttin' brush in Crawford,...the resulting TFR puts a stop to regular operations at 28 separate airports!!!

russ murri · Post by **russ murri** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:02 am

I really did not mean to start someting, It made me personaly feel sorry for the people that have to deal with this on a daily basis. I dont agree with the restrictions , it has been proven that a 172 centerpunching a bld. doesnt do a hole lot. The thing that scared me the most in talking with people on the METRO is that most people would have a fit if they knew how free we realy are in some parts of this land,just to fly unabstructed..I realy dont want that to change... and I agree that we have to make our voices be heard.. look at Meigs field.. Russ

N1277D · Post by **N1277D** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:05 am

In wide open Idaho there are also a few TFRs, mostly cause of fires in the summer. However, there is a huge government lab in SE Idaho. It is about the size of the state of Rhode Island. It is located about 50 miles from the nearest town in the middle of the desert. The places' mailing address is at the post office in the nearest town and not out in the desert.

Would you believe they imposed a TFR over the mailing address and not at the desert site. It closed the largest airport in SE Idaho because of it and left the government lab wide open. Could fly over the government lab place at 100 agl no problem, but not land at the airport 50 miles away where the post office was.

After a few calls, some arm twisting, and other stuff they finally got it figured out. Sometimes when it is so obvious they messed up they will change their minds

but it has to very so apparent. Even this blunder took a week or more to fix and it was not easy.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:11 am

Speaking of freedom & free flight, it amazes me how many people are shocked when they discover that (gasp!) our local airport does not have a control tower! "But who gives you permission to land?",they ask. I usually reply with a question of my own,like "who gives you permission to turn left at an intersection?".

Eric

The International Cessna 170 Association

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Only in Idaho - TFRs and other Stuff