met-co-aire tri gear

[mechanic]

i am a mechanic in canada involved in an import of a cessna 170B from the U.S. the aircraft was purchased with inadequate records and has been nothing but a headache for myself and the owner in dealing with transport canada to do everything properly. the journey log states that the tri gear installation was done in 1956. i have obtained a copy of the origional drawings for the installation from met-co-aire but they do not include any reference as to what should be done to return the plane to taildragger configuration, which is its current state. we have no record of it being converted back as these records are missing. i have seen on your forum that some of your owners have converted these planes back to tri gear and what i need is some insight as to what the faa required you to do it. i would like to think they wouldnt make you tear up the floor and remove the origional installation pieces. without a procedure transport canada will make us do that to bring the plane back to origional configuration. i think that a simple change of the weight and balance would be suffice. i also need to know where to find anequipment list for this aircraft as ours is missing. thank you for your time

[GAHorn]

The original equipment list can be obtained from Cessna by aircraft serial number. Of course, you will have to update that original to accomodate current status.
I can't help you with the Met-Co-Aire reversal back-to-original. (But I'd like to encourage you to send us copies of your Met Co Aire installation instructions, as we do not have that in our library.)

[johneeb]

Maybe you are asking the wrong persons and the wrong question. Perhaps the lerkers here who have converted their 172's to tail wheels could help with approved paper work.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I think what he is asking is not what needs to be done to convert back to a tail dragger, one would reinstall the original gear in the original locations as it came from the factory. The Met Co Air conversion involves installing gear bulkheads in the rear of the aircraft to hold the rear main gear and it has a engine mount which accommodates the nose gear.

He is asking whether the trike rear gear bulkheads as well as the engine mount were removed or just left abandon in the floor and on the firewall.

Here is what I know. I know of one aircraft a 170A that at one time was converted to a Met Co Air trike and then changed back to it's original tail dragger configuration. In this particular airframe the Met Co Air engine mount with the nose gear mount was not removed and is still used and flown today. The nose gear of course was removed. I can't say whether the rear bulkheads for the rear gear were removed but I doubt it. The slits in the side of the fuselage for the gear are just patched over. This particular aircraft is owned by a member but he is not active on the forum and quite frankly doesn't seem to know much about his airplane so even if I could contact him he most likely would be of little help.

And I echo George's request that a copy of the Met Co Air installation instructions be sent our way for our library and thank you in advance to your consideration of that request.

[Metal Master]

i am a mechanic in canada involved in an import of a cessna 170B from the U.S. the aircraft was purchased with inadequate records and has been nothing but a headache for myself and the owner in dealing with transport canada to do everything properly. the journey log states that the tri gear installation was done in 1956. i have obtained a copy of the origional drawings for the installation from met-co-aire but they do not include any reference as to what should be done to return the plane to taildragger configuration, which is its current state. we have no record of it being converted back as these records are missing. i have seen on your forum that some of your owners have converted these planes back to tri gear and what i need is some insight as to what the faa required you to do it. i would like to think they wouldnt make you tear up the floor and remove the origional installation pieces. without a procedure transport canada will make us do that to bring the plane back to origional configuration. i think that a simple change of the weight and balance would be suffice. i also need to know where to find anequipment list for this aircraft as ours is missing. thank you for your time

G'Day
I have more than a few times dealt with aircraft that have had an STC removed here in the North West Region of the US. In all cases there were no instructions for removal of the STC and returning the aircraft to its original configuration.
For example the most extensive was a T210 that had been modified with a Robertson STOL kit. For any one not familiar with this kit it including installing extra bell cranks in the wing and a new aileron bell crank that caused the ailerons to drop as flaperons with the deployment of the flaps. This went along with the drooped leading edge similar to a Horton leading edge along with mid span upper surface stall fences. The additional bell cranks required doublers to be installed in the wing skins along with cut outs in some of the ribs to clear the pushrods that drove the scissors in the aileron bell crank. That dropped the ailerons. The aileron cove was replaced with a deeper cove which allowed the aileron to travel further down than stock travel when dropped.. An extensive Mod I know I worked at Robertson in the late 70’s installing these kits.
I this case the kit was removed so a TKS de-ice system could be installed. The removal had already been done by TKS who installed the TKS system. There was no documentation other than a Log entry stating that the Robertson kit had been removed. I was performing an annual on the aircraft and took exception to the log entry as the KIT had not been entirely removed. Such as the Doublers were still in the wing with ¼ inch AN bolts installed in the idler bell crank pivot holes. The cut outs were still in the wing ribs and the alternate deeper Aileron cove was still installed. I called my principle FAA inspector who came out to inspect the issues of my concern.
Her determination was that as the mechanical parts of the Robertson STC were removed. And that the other operational parts such as the drooped leading edge were removed that the aircraft had been returned to it’s normal as before modified configuration and required nothing more than a log book entry to state so such as had already been done by TKS. Other than a caveat that the remaining doublers constituted a minor alteration that required nothing more than a log book entry. No 337 was required for the D-mod. I made a note in the log book concerning the conversation and name of the FAA PMI who stated these facts. She went on to say that any time you are returning an aircraft to it standard configuration from an STC’d alteration that it requires no 337 and only a log book entry as it did not constitute a major alteration from its standard configuration..
Go figure.
I would contact an US FAA airworthiness inspector to get guidance as to how to proceed with the paperwork issue as the FAA is the issuer of the Type certificate.

[Harold Holiman]

My 180 had had the tricycle gear installed in the late 1950's with the proper paperwork. The tri gear was removed during a major repair/rebuild after the plane had a major crash in the 1960's but I don't recall any paper work on the removal, it was just repaired/rebuilt to the original conventional gear configuration.

[FredMa]

I don't think that all FAA would agree (which is the problem) Removing a mod like this does meet the definition of a major repair and therefore should require a 337. The definition in the FAR's doesn't say " unless returning to original configuration" does it? My point is that a 337 would document exactly what was done and require FAA approval. There would be no further confusion. Did you check with the FAA records to see if there is a 337 on file covering this? If there is with a description of what was done and their approval, this should solve your problem.

[FredMa]

I meant "major alteration and or repair"

[mechanic]

we have the log entry for the origional installation. problem is the journey logs are incomplete and the tech logs were lost or stolen according to the guy it was bought from. there is no record of it being converted back to taildragger. since i m the guy signing it out for the inspection i would like to know how much of the origional installation faa wants removed to provide me with some insight to pass on to transport canada. with this plane being an import they could very well tell the owner to rip everything out and return it to origional due to the lack of information on the aircrafts past history. if i could provide transport with an example of a converted 170 approved by faa they may tell me just to make sure it is done the same as that one .

[mechanic]

what is the best way for me as a canadian ame to get ahold of faa regarding a particular 337

[FredMa]

FAA.gov

[56alpha]

In 1955 our 170a had the Met-Co-Aire Tricycle gear conversion installed, and in 1976 it was converted back. The only documentation we have about the conversion and removal is a 337 for each. The exact wording of the removal 337 is:

"Removed Met Co Aire Model 3 Triangle gear. Restored aircraft to conventional landing gear. Installed Scott Model 3200 Tail Wheel."

When they "restored" the aircraft they left just about all the Met-Co stuff installed. The nose gear and bracing that was welded to the motor mount looks like it was hack sawed off. I am sure there is still 30 Lbs of extra structure and AN hardware in the belly. We have decided to leave it there until we can remove and replace the lower center section skins that have large ugly patches were the main gear was previously installed.

[GAHorn]

All records on file at FAA-OKC regarding a particular serial may be purchased on-line for $10 on C.D.
http://www.faa.gov

[N4281V]

My 170 was also converted and after crashing in Nova Scota, the replacement fuselage was also converted. After the next ground loop, it was returned to conventional gear. The rear gear boxes remain under the floor boards, along with the modified engine mount and the steps on the landing gear. I got a new Airworthiness Certificate in 1996 due to the installation of the O-300-B engine. The FAA guy was more torqued about the leading edge landing light than the mods left from the Met Co Air modification.

I'd love to get a set of the installation paperwork. I called MCA when I bought the plane, they had no idea what I was asking for and pretty much blew me off.

[n2582d]

I'd love to get a set of the installation paperwork. I called MCA when I bought the plane, they had no idea what I was asking for and pretty much blew me off.

Ann,
Several years ago I contacted John Vasquez at Met-Co-Aire (John@metcoaire.com) about the STC they have for an aux. tank for the C-170. While they don't still manufacture the tank, he was quite willing to sell me the STC drawings for $100 each. You might try e-mailing him and reference STC SA4-28, the STC for the tricycle gear conversion.