Franklin 165HP major overhauls?

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun May 04, 2003 1:29 am

Hello,from Northern Ontario,Canada.

I have a 165HP Franklin engine in my 1952 170-B and I am shopping around for a shop to do a major overhaul,I have contacted Classic Aire in Cartersville GA(Bruce Kown) and Franklin Parts and Service in Sarasota Florida(Robert Skaggs).Has anyone had any work or bought parts from them?I would appreciate any comments you have on these two shops!
Does anyone know of any other shops that do Franklin 165hp overhauls?

Thanks ,Ken member #1213
Ken Drury,
E-mail kdrury@renegadeisp.com
Phone-807-868-2298

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sun May 04, 2003 3:16 pm

I would ask around the Stinson 108 crowd for recommendations for a Franklin overhauler. Don't know if they have a club website or anything like that.

Eric

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:22 pm

The Int'l Stinson Club can be found at:
http://www.aeromar.com/swsc.html
I don't know if they're as friendly as the TIC170A or not, as their webpages are largely unavailable except to members. (It seems to me that open websites do far more to promote the airplanes and type-club membership than closed ones do. But that's just an opinion, of course.)

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sun May 04, 2003 8:44 pm

A freind of mine who's rebuilding a Stinson 108 had his Franklin 150hp overhauled at Li'l Red Aero in Nebraska (I think). Check the Stinson club as perviously mentioned... I couldn't find a website for these guys.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sun May 04, 2003 8:51 pm

Found a link for the Southwest Stinson Club that lists some Franklin overhaul facilities (including Li'l Red Aero). Have a look:
http://www.aeromar.com/partsetc.html

Hope it helps...

Jack Winslett · Post by **Jack Winslett** » Mon May 05, 2003 1:08 am

I have personal experience with Bruce Kowan. He is a good fellow, A&P,IA, Mechanical Engineer, retired from Martin-Merreitta. Solid aero-mechanical background. He stays abreast of Franklin engines and parts and service. (I believe the guy dreams of Franklins) What he tells you you can take to the bank.
I saw him last October at the South east EAA fly-in, Flying a C-170-A he had comverted to a 220 HP franklin, I believe he holds a STC for that particular conversion.
A couple of years ago I needed a carb. for a 220 Franklin I could not find A used, new, or rebuilt anywhere, Bruce pulled a carb. off a NEW ENGINE so I could complete my ferry flight on time.

Jack Winslett
A&P

hbcroft · Post by **hbcroft** » Mon May 05, 2003 10:42 pm

Try the new Stinson discussion groups on Yahoo. You just need to register (free) and you'll have access to a lot of Stinson's owners. The subject of Franklin engines is often discussed...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stinson/

Good luck with your engine

Bruno
Ft Smith, NT

jestew · Post by **jestew** » Tue May 06, 2003 5:43 pm

Wow! This is exciting. You are the only other person I know of besides myself with the Franklin 165 in a 170B.

Ten or eleven years ago I had my engine overhauled by Jerry DeBatista at Deb's Aircraft in Grants Pass, Oregon. I have been pretty pleased with his work but last year a couple of bearings on the camshaft went out leading to low oil pressure. I had my regular mechanic in Arlington, WA overhaul the bottom end then I had Gene Hamilton near Vancouver, WA overhaul all six cylinders after close to 900 hours.

Gene at one time was Mr. Franklin on the West Coast but he is getting on in years and I don't know if he is up for a complete overhaul. He worked for Seaplanes, Inc and outfit that used Franklins in several different conversions. I can dig up his phone number if you want it.

Little Red Aero has a very bad reputation among Franklin owners but I have no personal experience with them.

Do you know about A-1 somewhere in Texas? They specialize in Franklin parts and probably could give a good recommendation. Call them at (903)626-5115

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed May 07, 2003 4:37 am

I asked a friend of mine who used to own a Stinson 108 who did his overhaul a few years ago. He told me Little Red Aero did it,and he was happy with their work except that they took longer than promised,and the logbook entry seemed kinda skimpy. He told me they overhauled his 165 Franklin in 1997 for $9K,including carb & mags,that seemed very reasonable to me even considering that was 6 years ago.

Eric

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Not really relevant but am reminded of my first airplane, a Stinson 10A that I bought in San Antonio back in 1955 for $560. As the compression on the Franklin 90hp engine left something to be desired my wife and I removed the cylinders and overhauled them at home in our living room. After that I always flew with a few spare spark plugs.
Airplane flew really well- it was a three seater and we carried our German Shepherd in the back seat. I was a pioneer in the use of auto gas- the Stinson loved it. (It cost around 18 cents per gal I think) I assume the statute of limitations has long expired on this ? I sold the airplane to a dealer for around $400.
Rudy

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed May 07, 2003 4:58 pm

Rudy = "I sold the airplane to a dealer for around $400."

Was that because of no yellow tags for the Top Ovhl?

Eric = "...and the logbook entry seemed kinda skimpy."

Logbook entries are such a tell-tale sign...usually. If there's no recording of "serial no.- off, Serial no. - on" etc., and a listing by part number of each item replaced/repaired as well as "yellow tags" (Form 8130-3) then it can be assumed that little more was done than disassembly, clean, inspect, reassembled,...and calling it an inspection....not a repair....not an overhaul. Very carefully read FAR 43.2 (a) and (b).
This is not a criticism. This is advice (that I wish I'd always followed myself.) Whenever arranging for an overhaul, be certain the work order specifies that 43.2 will be adhered to, and that documentation will include Form 8130-3's and all parts removed, installed, or re-installed will be identified by part number in the logbook entry. This becomes very important in the future when an AD note comes out against "oil pump gear, pn XXXXX" or something similar. It may not only prevent a needless tear-down inspection, it may also help one determine if the airplane should be grounded for safety, and it will definitely add to the aircraft value at time of re-sale. (A "full-paint" overhaul is not a valid log-book entry.)

My own engine logbook records that the engine was "disassembled, cleaned, inspected, repaired and reassembled according to Overhaul standards. All work done in accordance with TCM Overhaul Manual Form X30013. Records ... are on file at Embry-Riddle Aero Univ. CRS108-55 under W.O. #82-465". Very impressive, ...until one actually reads the manual and finds that the manual provides/allows both NEW and SERVICEABLE limits. I wish the entry actually stated "NEW" limits rather than me relying upon the seller's comments. (It was performed when he was a student-tech at Embry-Riddle as a classroom project, but as it occurred more than 7 years ago, the records are no longer in existence at the university so I have only "yellow tags" to prove the parts were airworthy. Those tags do not specify whether the parts were airworthy because they met "new" specs or "serviceable" specs, only that they were airworthy. Even though I'm of the belief it was overhauled to "new" specs, you can bet I'd be a lot happier if I had written documentation on it.

russ murri · Post by **russ murri** » Fri May 09, 2003 9:25 pm

I bought my 170 from Bruce Kown in Cartersville Ga. He is very honest and a pleasure to deal with. IF he tells you he can do the job I would believe him. Tell him hi from Russ and his son Mike Murri, Yakima Wa.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:09 pm

I have a friend who just bought a Stinson and found a Franklin engine shop in Elmore City, OK. Contact is Eddie Stewart, Franklin Cylinder Service, Phone: 580-788-4419