Sportsman STOL kit

[N170BP]

That falls into the "whatever floats yer boat" category. If you want
to set your airplane up with big tires, a seaplane prop, STOL kit
+ various "schtuff", more power to ya. If ya want a factory stock
show-winning classic with little tires and wheel pants that scoots
along at 120+ mph, more power to ya there too. They all look
great to me, and they're all great airplanes for the money.

It all depends upon how you want to use the airplane. One could
argue that a Super Cub "sucks" 'cause it's too slow & cramped
inside, and it's too hard to get in and out of, but you'll be hard-pressed
to convince a Super Cub owner of that!

Part of the joy of owning an airplane is to modify it (if you're so
inclined) to suit your personal needs.

FWIW, I fly my B 200+ hours per year. I (knock on wood) haven't
gone where I shouldn't have gone yet!

[zero.one.victor]

Regarding floating due to wrong approach speed:
I added some (bootleg) flap gap seals to my ragwing. (don't tell George)They definitely reduce the stall speed. Trouble is, they don't increase the aileron authority at low speed which is already marginal. So I'm uncomfortable using as low an approach speed as I theoretically can (1.2 VSO), especially in any type of squirrelly conditions. I don't like the mushy ailerons, so I tend to use the same approach speed as before(which is now probably more like 1.4 VSO),resulting in float.
As I understand it, increasing control authority is part of what VG's are supposed to do. Do the various STOL cuffs(Horton,Robertson,Owl,MidAmerica,Sportsman,Bush,yadayada) improve aileron authority (or claim to)? It's pretty hard to confidently take advantage of the lower stall speed if the controls are mushy.

Eric

[AR Dave]

Bill, do a lot of winter flying in Penn?

[3958v]

We fly quite a bit in the winter here. I am in the excavavation business here so time is more available in the winter. My coments in the prior post were really just meant for fun. I regularly use a 1000FT grass strip here with two guys in the plane and that is as short a strip as is availlable near here. I know lots of guys who would never go into a strip this short even though their planes are more than capable. But I dont fault them, we sure dont need to bend any more planes up. Bill K.

[zero.one.victor]

Clear approaches can make an otherwise short strip much more usable. As can familiarity. I shot a landing into Karl's thousand foot strip a while back, made it a "bounce & go" cuz I wasn't comfortable with how much real state went by before I lit (about 500'). Probably woulda been fine, but that little voice was telling me to get out of there. The slug of adrenaline coursing thru my veins from the lack of familiarity & that tree I doglegged around on final had a lot to do with that little voice.

Eric

[3958v]

Eric The secret to short strips is to get the plane nice and slow so there is very little float. Most pilots around here tend to approach at to high an airspeed. The 1000 ft we use has a clear approach and has very high power lines off the departure end, but they can be avoided by a 90 degree turn while just above the soybeans. Since there are no houses or other obstructions that is really a fun alternative and safer than trying to clear the wires. Course you could liven up the passengers and fly under the wires but I am not that crazy. Bill K

[zero.one.victor]

Eric The secret to short strips is to get the plane nice and slow so there is very little float.................. Bill K

Bill, I'm aware of that. Like I said, I chose to dogleg around a tree on final and was keeping a little airspeed "in the bank" (get it?) which no doubt contributed to my long landing, along with it being my firsat time into that place. Like I've mentioned before, my ragwing ailerons seem kinda mushy at low speed so I tend to keep my speed up if I'm gonna be doing any maneuvering, especially down low on final. In hindsight, it mighta been a better option to fly a straight final, go over that tree then drop down.
Bill, how are your ailerons at low speed? By low I mean in the area of 60mph & below. My ragwing used to stall (full flap,power off, 3/4 fuel,2 people aboard) at about 47 IAS, now with the gap seals it's more like 40 or maybe even a bit less. It's actually kinda hard to stall now, it just wants to mush unless I give it pretty abrupt back stick.

Eric

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Bill
What 1000 ft strip are you going in and out of?

[3958v]

First off to Bruces question. Massey MD just below SummitDE has a 1000 ft cross runway that you can use for practice. You must talk to the airport manager before you do as I belive that was a requirement of the state before they approved it as a special use runway. It is really as safe a place to practice your short field landings as you will find. The people are real friendly and the manager is restoring a Piper J3. They have a Chile Fly in on May 7 which is a fun event but don't expect to use the short runway that day as it is used for parking. Now for Erics question I fly my short field approaches at 60 but I must confess I find something else to do on gusty days as that gets closer to the edge than I care to go. I really dont want to read about 3958V on the NTSB site. But at 60 on steady wind days I have never experienced lack of aileron effectiveness. But then again I am not doing much manuvering at those speeds Bill K.

[N170BP]

I've gone on record here before saying I wouldn't spend
the money on a Sportsman STOL kit if it weren't already
on my airplane, and that I'd rather have the 18lb STOL kit
weight off of my '54, but I have to admit it's nice to be
able to fly this slow if/when you want to! I was fartin'
around flying yesterday and snapped this shot.

http://www.havasreti.com/slow_flight.jpg

Configuration was full flaps and about 1900 rpm. The ailerons still
worked, but were a bit mushy. If you pull back on the yoke in this
configuration, the nose bobs up and down and it settles at about
200-300 fpm, but it won't stall. You *can* get it to stall/break by
pulling back quickly on the yoke.

We did a little debriefing after flying and collectively allowed as
how 9 times out of 10, the winds at the kinds of places you might
want or need this kind of capability would be blowing way too hard
to approach at 35, 40 or 45mph, so the capability is of dubious
value. However, when the winds are calm (mornings or evenings),
it's fun to play with just how short you can land one of these
things! There ain't much roll-out when the tires touch at 25-30mph....

[zero.one.victor]

Bela, Bela, Bela-- you're embarassing yourself! Take a look at that pic-- notice anything wrong? Take another look- the ball's not in the center! Shame on you!
I have a similar pic of my panel-- some friends were riding with me, the one in the front seat eased in some rudder while distracting me, and the one in back ( they're a husband & wife team) snapped a pic of the panel with the T&B ball way out. The panel has my tailnumber on it in big old letters, so there's no deniability. They posted that pic prominently on the bulletin board in their hangar, so everybody can get a laugh out of it!

Eric

[N170BP]

That's OK, my ball(s) don't sit exactly in the center either!

In my "defense", I was busy taking the picture (both hands on
the camera instead of the yoke) while flying at 28mph indicated
maintaining altitude.

My story is that the reason the ball is out to one side is because I
was, no doubt, picking up a wing with the rudder since my hands
were full of camera!

I'll go try it again in the next day or so, and see if I can get
it any slower with the ball centered!

[JTS]

Hey guys, just don't step on the ball(s) too hard!

Jody

[Dave Clark]

Bela you're also going to have to ground your plane until you get that stall warning light fixed, it's required equipment.

[N170BP]

Actually, it works... the picture didn't pick up the light somehow.

I checked it just the other night while I was about to do
some night flying.