I'd get the 8043 prop ASAP!
I don't think there is anything else that makes as drastic of a change as the prop! A must in Alaska!
Mike, a co-worker says he used to own a 170B, N2201D up in Fairbanks. Belong to anyone here?
Sportsman STOL kit
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
The 6k price did include paint. But it didnt include wing tips. There is manufacturer that makes wingtips( The Folks who sell the Sportsman STOL kit can tell you who) to match the STOL kit instead of blanking off the ends. They were in the $300-600 range not including field approval(They are not STCed with the sportsman STOL kit or on thier own).
So in my mind if I wanted to add wing tips, and do it right in my opinion, add 750-1000 to the 6K. This assumes I can get a field approval in a reasonable time or at all for the wing tips.
Not to get down on the Sportsman STOL as I would do it if I had the $. I looked at the Horton kit which sells for $1200. It does include the wing tips and also includes fences. From what I have read on this site, they are not as effective as the Sportsman and costs about the same to install. The installation is the larger cost by far. Also just looking at the Horton kit, it appears they do not add as much wing area as the Sportsman. The Horton kit has two sizes of cuff. The one on the outside edge of the wing resembles the Sportsman and the inside is smaller. Again in my mind, less wing area, less lift. IMO
So in my mind if I wanted to add wing tips, and do it right in my opinion, add 750-1000 to the 6K. This assumes I can get a field approval in a reasonable time or at all for the wing tips.
Not to get down on the Sportsman STOL as I would do it if I had the $. I looked at the Horton kit which sells for $1200. It does include the wing tips and also includes fences. From what I have read on this site, they are not as effective as the Sportsman and costs about the same to install. The installation is the larger cost by far. Also just looking at the Horton kit, it appears they do not add as much wing area as the Sportsman. The Horton kit has two sizes of cuff. The one on the outside edge of the wing resembles the Sportsman and the inside is smaller. Again in my mind, less wing area, less lift. IMO
Craig
Eagle River, AK
Eagle River, AK
You should get a pair of fiberglass pieces that rivet and bondo onto your existing wingtips with the Sportsman kit. After painting they look like they are made that way. Some A&Ps' blank off the end because it's a little less work on their part. Talk to Northland Aviation in Fairbanks, the kit wasn't that expensive several years ago. You can do most of the labor yourself to cut cost as long as a A&P will work with you. Instructions come with the kit.
Craig,
A lot has passed since I started this thread in April of '03. The maker of the wingtips is Stene Aviation who has recently purchased the Sportsman STOL STC's. I guess I'll blow my horn, but "we" are working towards including the wingtips in the STC and selling the whole package for $1850.
There is alot to say about the kit and the performance realized from it. I think that resonates through a large portion of the posts that are found on forums throughout the web from pilots using the modification. From my background, engineering, it is clear by the numbers/test results what the modification will do for an airplane.
It's also interesting to know that the 170 was the first airplane outfitted with the Sportsman kit and that the original work was an engineer for Lockheed "SkunkWorks", Marvin Davis.
As mentioned by Roesbery if you can find an A&P to work with and perform the labor yourself all instructions are provided and installation instructions are included. The installation is straight forward.
I can provide more details, technical or general, if so be requested. Otherwise I just wanted to pass on to everybody what has been going on with the Sportsman.
A lot has passed since I started this thread in April of '03. The maker of the wingtips is Stene Aviation who has recently purchased the Sportsman STOL STC's. I guess I'll blow my horn, but "we" are working towards including the wingtips in the STC and selling the whole package for $1850.
There is alot to say about the kit and the performance realized from it. I think that resonates through a large portion of the posts that are found on forums throughout the web from pilots using the modification. From my background, engineering, it is clear by the numbers/test results what the modification will do for an airplane.
It's also interesting to know that the 170 was the first airplane outfitted with the Sportsman kit and that the original work was an engineer for Lockheed "SkunkWorks", Marvin Davis.
As mentioned by Roesbery if you can find an A&P to work with and perform the labor yourself all instructions are provided and installation instructions are included. The installation is straight forward.
I can provide more details, technical or general, if so be requested. Otherwise I just wanted to pass on to everybody what has been going on with the Sportsman.
I am installing the sportsman kit currently and look forward to its benifits, but the cheapie rivets that come with it must be a mistake. there mostly unusable and need to be replaced. I think the polished look ( leading edge, spinner, and hubcaps) on top of a painted plane is a great look and I'll probably stick with it. the sportsman kit adds more wing area and changes the chord, more wing area is more lift, more lift is shorter take offs, makes sense to me. also a couple thousand dollar wing mod is way cheaper than a engine up-grade. with similar results. there thats what I think. karl m.
More wing area = more float!
Not knocking the kit (I have one on my '54, it was on
there when I bought it). Just be ready for the airplane
to "keep flying" when you were kinda ready/waiting for it
to quit flying (grins).
I forget the number, but the extended leading edge times the
wingspan (outboard of the cabin area) equals a substantial
amount of increased wing area.
My '54 with the Sportsman quits flying at 35mph indicated.
If I want to (in relatively calm winds), I can "rotate" (go flying)
at 40mph indicated on the takeoff roll. This allows you to
haul it off in short order, poke the nose down, build a little
speed and then start your climb at Vx or Vy (whatever the
situation dictates).
I will opine that takeoff performance with the kit installed, although
improved, isn't as dramatic as the short landing capability
(landing rolls are short iindeed when you touch down at
around 35mph).
In the end, a good pilot in a stock-winged B model could probably
do as well (or really close) to an average B model pilot with the
Sportsman kit installed.
I always used to think if my '54 had a stock wing on it, I'd have
to think awfully hard about it before I forked over the $$$ to put
a Sportsman (or other STOL) leading edge kit on the darned thing
(I flew a '53 for years with a stock wing and loved it as well).
Not knocking the kit (I have one on my '54, it was on
there when I bought it). Just be ready for the airplane
to "keep flying" when you were kinda ready/waiting for it
to quit flying (grins).
I forget the number, but the extended leading edge times the
wingspan (outboard of the cabin area) equals a substantial
amount of increased wing area.
My '54 with the Sportsman quits flying at 35mph indicated.
If I want to (in relatively calm winds), I can "rotate" (go flying)
at 40mph indicated on the takeoff roll. This allows you to
haul it off in short order, poke the nose down, build a little
speed and then start your climb at Vx or Vy (whatever the
situation dictates).
I will opine that takeoff performance with the kit installed, although
improved, isn't as dramatic as the short landing capability
(landing rolls are short iindeed when you touch down at
around 35mph).
In the end, a good pilot in a stock-winged B model could probably
do as well (or really close) to an average B model pilot with the
Sportsman kit installed.
I always used to think if my '54 had a stock wing on it, I'd have
to think awfully hard about it before I forked over the $$$ to put
a Sportsman (or other STOL) leading edge kit on the darned thing
(I flew a '53 for years with a stock wing and loved it as well).
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-180
'54 C-180
I guess since my 55-b has a stock wing and It seems really easy and constant that I regularly use half of my 1000' airstrip (alone), and I just happened to have some cash. I must try at least one time, one of these stol kits. just to find out for myself and others if the hype is true. this is my gift to the world. 
also, some one said earlier that if these kits really ment something that cessna would have used them, and to my knowledge,they did, with the cambered lift wing on wings after I think 1973 wings. at least on the 180-85's. for the most part I'm sure the techno wasnt very developed and maybe in some cases de-classified until relativly recently ( the last 30 years). which doesent mesh timeing wise with most GA planes we are interested in. I also want to be able to be comfortable hauling full gross out of my place. so if it doesnt perform better I'm probably not going to be a advocate for the kits. If it does I'll be there supporter and thats ultimately these gimmicks live or die. Its still cheaper than other gambles we take on products for our planes. karl m
also, some one said earlier that if these kits really ment something that cessna would have used them, and to my knowledge,they did, with the cambered lift wing on wings after I think 1973 wings. at least on the 180-85's. for the most part I'm sure the techno wasnt very developed and maybe in some cases de-classified until relativly recently ( the last 30 years). which doesent mesh timeing wise with most GA planes we are interested in. I also want to be able to be comfortable hauling full gross out of my place. so if it doesnt perform better I'm probably not going to be a advocate for the kits. If it does I'll be there supporter and thats ultimately these gimmicks live or die. Its still cheaper than other gambles we take on products for our planes. karl mWhich simply means you are using the wrong approach speed for landing.N170BP wrote:More wing area = more float!
Not knocking the kit (I have one on my '54, it was on
there when I bought it). Just be ready for the airplane
to "keep flying" when you were kinda ready/waiting for it
to quit flying (grins).
Brian S.
54 C-180 - - - 55 PA-18
Oliver 88
54 C-180 - - - 55 PA-18
Oliver 88
No, I'm not using the wrong approach speed for landing.
A gust of wind will make it fly again, period. If your approach
speed is on the low side in gusty conditions, you risk dropping
the thing in due to wind shear. If it's on the high side, you'll get the
"it won't quit flying" thing. This is true with any 170, not just one
with a Sportsman kit on it.
Bottom line, the added wing area makes the thing a bit "Taylorcraft-ish"
as far as getting it to quit flying.
My technique is to dump whatever flaps I have set to zero as soon I
touch down.
My comment stands... Add the Sportsman kit, and get ready
to get used to the additional lift generated as a result.
A gust of wind will make it fly again, period. If your approach
speed is on the low side in gusty conditions, you risk dropping
the thing in due to wind shear. If it's on the high side, you'll get the
"it won't quit flying" thing. This is true with any 170, not just one
with a Sportsman kit on it.
Bottom line, the added wing area makes the thing a bit "Taylorcraft-ish"
as far as getting it to quit flying.
My technique is to dump whatever flaps I have set to zero as soon I
touch down.
My comment stands... Add the Sportsman kit, and get ready
to get used to the additional lift generated as a result.
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-180
'54 C-180
Sportsman STOL
Karl, how many pounds does this add to your plane? My 56 172 TD had a Horton STOL kit on it when I bought it. It has to add some lbs & might slow you down a few mpg's.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
My records state the Sportsman kit added 18 lbs to the airplane.
That doesn't include the customized Metco wing tips that were
installed (they were modified to conform to the new leading edge
profile). The fiberglass Metcos probably weight a bit more than the
standard (original) Cessna tips.
That doesn't include the customized Metco wing tips that were
installed (they were modified to conform to the new leading edge
profile). The fiberglass Metcos probably weight a bit more than the
standard (original) Cessna tips.
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-180
'54 C-180
STOL Kit
Thanks Bela. I wondered how much extra weight the Horton added, but probably about the same as Sportsman + the wingtips and the extra area of paint.
I wonder if those who have flown their 170's before adding a STOL kit have found that it had any effect on speed. Someone once told me that might contribute to my 172 being somewhat slower than a number of 170's I have flown with, but also a 170 member told me once that his 170 was just as fast after his installation as before it was done. I don't know fo sure how much weight I am carrying around with my plane having once been a trike. I know the firewall has a doubler type sheet of metal over the lower area that adds a slight amount of unneeded wt. Just curious.
I wonder if those who have flown their 170's before adding a STOL kit have found that it had any effect on speed. Someone once told me that might contribute to my 172 being somewhat slower than a number of 170's I have flown with, but also a 170 member told me once that his 170 was just as fast after his installation as before it was done. I don't know fo sure how much weight I am carrying around with my plane having once been a trike. I know the firewall has a doubler type sheet of metal over the lower area that adds a slight amount of unneeded wt. Just curious.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
Well guys it all sounds like another good reason to own a ragwing. You cant spend $40,000on a bigger engine. $6.000 on a STOL kit and $1.500 on a set of Vg's. That will buy enough 100LL to fly about 2000 hrs. Ithink maybe I just figured out why I fly more than most people. And your Insurance company will appreciate the fact that you are not trying to go places you don't belong just so you can say you did. Bill K
Polished 48 170 Cat 22 JD 620 & Pug