Swifts vs Cessna 170's (Split from Exhaust stack topic)

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:19 am

Basic formation flying is not an aerobatic manuever.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:39 pm

Bela,I believe the group you're referring to is called "Swift Magic".

Eric

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:44 pm

Swift Magic is correct, I know those guys personally. There were 3 of them and they do a lot more than formation.

I owned a Swift for 7 years and 600 hrs. I agree with George on being a Maintenance headache. I would say you work on it at least an hour for every hour of flight. And the Gear is a constant headache.

If I could afford to pay someone to do the work I'd still be flying one today. I also had "spacial disorientation" every time I flew it. And Raced it at Sun-N-Fun. Including Takeoff and Climbout I ended up with a speed of 163 mph over a 60 mile triangular course with a 145 hp engine. Wow, they do have their place. But I did get tired of the 330 mile range in comparison to the 170.

Kelly

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:11 pm

gahorn wrote:Basic formation flying is not an aerobatic manuever.

I know that....

These guys were doing formation aerobatics (loops, rolls,
hammerheads, all the fun stuff).

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:18 pm

Back in the early 70's I attended the Miami Air Races where a pilot with a beefed up Swift put on an incredible aerobatic show, including numerous hard negative G maneuvers. I could hardly believe what I was seeing.
I heard that subsequently the airplane came apart on him with prdictable results. But it was spectacular !
Rudy

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 3:39 pm

N170BP wrote:
gahorn wrote:Basic formation flying is not an aerobatic manuever.
I know that....

These guys were doing formation aerobatics (loops, rolls,
hammerheads, all the fun stuff).

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

Any idea how they avoided the attention of the FAA for violating the aircraft operating limitations?

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:56 pm

That's a question I was hinting at in a previous post (other
"non aerobatic certified" aircraft have been displayed at
airshows obviously doing aerobatics). Like the guy who
did the aerobatic Beach 18 routine for awhile (now he
does a routine in a Lear jet!).

For that matter, when Bob Hoover did his routine
in the Shrike Commander.

Did these folks get a waiver from the FAA to "exceed"
the design limitations of the aircraft for the purpose
of aerial displays at airshows? Just wondering how
it works....

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:42 am

Those air show guys probably don't (theoretically) exceed the airplane's legal limits. They do get low-altitude waivers and have to demonstrate air show proficiency to the FAA. (When I competed in aerobatics with my S1S Pitts I got a low-altitude waiver from an FAA inspector who watched perform a sequence). Of course competition aerobatics, unlike air show routines, must stay above 500 ft.
Rudy

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:36 am

I suspect some aircraft are re-licensed in the experimental/exhibition category or other waivers are issued. Lots of manuevers, of course, aren't really all that stressful. Barrel rolls are a 1-G manuever....the airplane doesn't know which way is up, and a simple loop rarely exceeds 2-G's (same as a 60-degree level turn.) A hammer-head is a low stress manuever no different than a wing-over...provided the airspeed is not allowed to build in the pull out.
Spins and snap-rolls are harder on the airplane than either of those manuevers.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 12:26 pm

Back in 1975 in my second year of flying I was in Spokane on a trip from Seattle with my '51 170A. While in the gas office a fellow walks up and asks if I'm driving the 170. When I said yes he told me he used to own that plane and that it "sure loops and rolls nice".

Not a great thing to hear. At least I found out (probably) why one wing had a bit of a wrinkle in the top skin. I did quite a few spins in that plane though but of course it's approved for that.