Good Oshkosh 170 pictures bad Beechcraft pictures

[N4005V]

Roush Premier I accident.

[GAHorn]

I have to admit that the main reason I've never gone to Oshkosh or SunNFun is because I don't want to be around all the other accident-prone crazies. Sorry, but that's my view. Reklaw has become almost as ominous to me after the last 2 years, especially with all the hot-heads, show-offs and repetitive amatuer buzz-jobs that have become so common, and I'm probably going to find something else to do this year.

[N2255D]

I have to admit that the main reason I've never gone to Oshkosh or SunNFun is because I don't want to be around all the other accident-prone crazies.

Thanks George.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Wow. That is about all I can say. I see no deviation on the taxiing 170s part which means there was little they could have done. You just never know when it might be your time or how close you might come to it.

I've never been to Oshkosh but have been to Sun N Fun several times. I do have to admit that this sort of thing happening has crossed my mind. Mistakes are made by humans and that includes showing off though I'm not sure anyone shows off arriving and departing Osh and Sun N Fun. Of course the odds of something happening are higher because there are more operations for something to happen and often times the pressure doesn't bring out the best performance in folks. It is obvious the most dangerous times you probably can't control are near the active runway.

To live life is a risk. We all decide what reward is worth the risk every day. If jets slid down the runway every day at Osh or Sun N Fun there'd be a lot less folks attending including me. But it doesn't happen. Fact is I personally am statistically much safer at Osh or Sun N Fun than at my job and probably riding my motorcycle both things I do much more often.

[jrenwick]

Amazing pictures! Those are the best I've seen. The grey/white 170 in the 2nd photo is Kyle and Becky Wolfe. The blue/silver one in the later photos (closest to the wreck) is Wayne Eberhart. Both TIC170A members. We're all glad they escaped unscathed. Kyle and Becky were allowed to continue taxiing and take off on 27. They stopped Wayne where he was, and made him stay another night.

[jrenwick]

I have to admit that the main reason I've never gone to Oshkosh or SunNFun is because I don't want to be around all the other accident-prone crazies....

That doesn't include any of us 170 pilots, of course!

It was heavy traffic coming in from Ripon on Monday morning. Somebody cut in front of me over the tracks just northeast of Ripon, so I broke it off and went back to Ripon, only to have the same thing happen again. I ended up behind a slow Champ and had to keep backing off the throttle; to whoever was behind me, I'm sorry.

If you search the NTSB reports for Tuesday, 7/27, you'll see there was a midair collision between a PA11 and a Saratoga just northeast of Ripon. Both aircraft landed safely, but the Saratoga had damage to one tire and couldn't stay on the runway after landing. The PA11 had prop damage. FAA called it an "incident."

That and the Beechjet crash are the only accidents I'm aware of. Nobody killed. That's a better Oshkosh than most, I'm sorry to say.

[W.J.Langholz]

I put on 829 miles from Sunday noon to Monday at 10 pm and the Hundreds of cars I met coming within inches of me going the opposite direction at 70 mph...... and yet we think nothing of it. Heck George I'll prabably get run over crossing the street by a beer truck.........

[DWood]

I have to admit that the main reason I've never gone to Oshkosh or SunNFun is because I don't want to be around all the other accident-prone crazies. Sorry, but that's my view. Reklaw has become almost as ominous to me after the last 2 years, especially with all the hot-heads, show-offs and repetitive amatuer buzz-jobs that have become so common, and I'm probably going to find something else to do this year.

If you feel this way, it is probably time to hang it up

[Bill Hart]

I have some other views of that shot and it looks like the 170 pilot may not have even seen the Beech. I would post them if I could but for some reason I can't seem to post them.

[N2255D]

How would have liked being this guy.

[jrenwick]

I have some other views of that shot and it looks like the 170 pilot may not have even seen the Beech. I would post them if I could but for some reason I can't seem to post them.

Kyle Wolfe was the pilot of the gray & white 170 in the photo. I hope he won't mind if I quote him; he sent this email after he and Becky got home Tuesday night:

A couple of years ago I got hit in the rudder at OSH when a C140 taxied by. This year, I thought I was going to get hit by the Beech jet that crashed on Tuesday night.

Becky and I were taxiing to the North along RWY 18 and watched Mr. Roush turn from base to final. He overshot the turn, then turned it in tighter. As he went by us his nose was high and we could see that control was minimal. I do not recall hearing that the engines were powered up. Becky said "He's going to crash" Someone on the radio said "Isn't anyone controlling him?" I saw him go over our top right wing. Becky watched him hit just at our 4 o'clock position. The a/c did a 180 degree spin. Our 170 friend Wayne Eberhard from Amboy was right behind us and was the closest a/c to the accident. We were afraid that he had been hit. He was not.

My immediate thought was to power up and get away from the fireball. I did that, taxiing North another few hundred yards. There was no fire and the a/c stayed together remarkably well.

I don't recall if there was slower traffic ahead of Mr. Roush - I presume so - it's Oshkosh. He may have been trying to S turn to avoid overrunning someone ahead. I do know that he was low and slow, and then pulled the turn tighter to get back onto centerline.

He is a very lucky person and we too are thankful it occurred a few hundred yards away.

We got out after sitting for 1 1/2 hours just off the taxiway. Left at 8 and had a slow ride home. Had to layover in RST for thunderstorms to pass. Home by midnight.

[Kyle Wolfe]

Thanks John for posting our note.

We DEFINITELY saw the Beech. So did Wayne.

Never once did I think of turning off the taxiway. Happened too quick. I did speed up my taxi to get ahead of the a/c and as I did say in my note, though, I immediately wanted to taxi away fearing the suspected fire which never came. (Thanks John for posting.)

Becky and I had a serious discussion after the crash regarding the "low turn to final - then tighten the turn and slip to get aligned" scenario that many of us have done. To watch that happen really drives home the point to NOT DO THAT.

In my mind, while Mr. Roush screwed up, he did do a good job of getting the a/c away from the crowd. It would have been much worse had he not pulled the turn in tighter. When I first saw him I was sure he was heading towards a right 45 degree line to the right of the intended runway. Had that happened there would have been a number of people standing by the flight line (many non-pilots of course) injured.

George, I too am concerned with risk (I work for an insurance company) but I do not feel that I should avoid these scenarios. I try to be smart and minimize that risk. I don't stay home but rather try to participate as much as we can and watch out for the other guy. I'm more concerned with the local pan cake fly ins with the guy who flys 10 hours per year than I am at most large events. And remember - most accidents happen in the home but I bet you don't avoid that, George!

[flyguy]

http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... lls#p10075

Accelerated stalls are "killers" in many instances. This guy is fortunate his stall progressed into loss of control at the low altitude it did. A few hundred feet higher and the airplane could have rolled completely over and nosed in at a much steeper angle. George is it common practice to fly this Hawker single pilot? Just wondering, what difference it might have made if there had been another pair of eyes and hands in the right or left seat. The outcome might have been better for all concerned.

[canav8]

I dont think I can share the ones I recieved in email because they have the TMZ logo on them but there is a lot more. If you would like to see them shoot me an email at doug at bmflyingservice dot com. Doug

[GAHorn]

I have to admit that the main reason I've never gone to Oshkosh or SunNFun is because I don't want to be around all the other accident-prone crazies. Sorry, but that's my view. Reklaw has become almost as ominous to me after the last 2 years, especially with all the hot-heads, show-offs and repetitive amatuer buzz-jobs that have become so common, and I'm probably going to find something else to do this year.

If you feel this way, it is probably time to hang it up

I'm not about to hang it up simply because I weigh benefit/risk and make a choice. If you wanted to go to the supermarket, would you do it at rush-hour in the rain? or would you wait for a less-hazardous time. All fly-ins are optional attendance. Those mentioned are improperly conducted mass-congregations with too much amatuerism thrown-in, in my opinion. My benefit/risk meter points toward the avoid/good-judgement end of the scale. IMO
PS- I didn't mind flying down the Hudson River corridor in NYC. Lot's safer, was fun and I hope to do it again, soon.

http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... lls#p10075

Accelerated stalls are "killers" in many instances. This guy is fortunate his stall progressed into loss of control at the low altitude it did. A few hundred feet higher and the airplane could have rolled completely over and nosed in at a much steeper angle. George is it common practice to fly this Hawker single pilot? Just wondering, what difference it might have made if there had been another pair of eyes and hands in the right or left seat. The outcome might have been better for all concerned.

That's not a "Hawker" in the traditional sense. (Hawker ordinarly is applied only to the HS-125 or BAe1000.) Beech/Raytheon/Hawker-Beech (whatever they choose to call themselves these days) is simply marketing the name with some of the new models. But interestingly, the original type-design of the name was and is "single-pilot" in it's home-country, England. (It's competitors here in the U.S., all of which required 2-crew by design, lobbied to force it into a two-crew airplane back in the '60s in an effort to fight it in the U.S. marketplace.) Mr. Roush might have benefitted from a more-qualified crewmember in the other seat.