Keeping a Plane Outside???

[W.J.Langholz]

We live in and area where almost all the planes are kept inside, but I know that's not true everywhere. Hanger rent here is reasonable but finding an open hanger is all but impossible. We live in S.W. Minnesota and can spit across the boarder into South Dakota so we have all 4 seasons (some would say 2 seasons "Winter" and Road Construction")
I am thinking about keeping my 1957 c-172 and parking it at KBKX (Brookings South Dakota) where my son is going to college.This would give him and opportunity to work towards his I R rating. All the hangers there are private so it would sit outside in the Tie Down area. What should I be considering to keep this plane in good shape.
1) Cabin Covers..Good? Bad? what kind are the best?
2) Prop lock?
3) door looks ( this airport has surveillance cameras)
4) Wing covers for Winter?

WHat have I missed?

The tie downs themselves are imbedded in concrete and everyone there says they have never seen them come out????

The value of the plane is not that high and I have hull insurance for 30K. In this depressed market I'm not going to give it away either.
I know alot of you keep your planes outside so your input and knowledge would greatly be appreciated

Thanks a Bunch
W.

[jrenwick]

Willie, is it pretty windy out there on the prairie?

John

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Willie there is probably more to it than your thinking.

First here in the north east we rarely get hale. If we do it is rarely large enough to do damage. We don't have tornadoes and in general we don't get lots of snow. It isn't real hot compared to some places and we don't have dust storms. These are all things that a good hanger might be expected to protect a plane from. Of course some of these things can have a hanger fall on the plane while the one tied outside might remain undamaged.

Personally I'd have to ask the locals why most planes are in a hanger. Could be hangers are just so cheap and everyone has one. Not so here in the north east were hangers can easily bring $400 a month and UP. AND they take a year or two to find and in a few cases I've heard as long as a 10 year waiting list. BTW tie downs are $91 a month at my airport. No electric only the main and nose gear will be on pavement.

All things being equal if your only worried about paint and your in an area like mine at $400 a month you will save enough in three years with a tie down to paint your plane every three years. Course I don't know why you'd want to ruin that great Rat patina that's being built up by painting your plane that often. And then of course insurance would cover any other damage say from hail or a twister.

Again I'd ask the locals if there is anything in particular you might want to protect your plane outside. I'd have at least a cover over the windows to keep the sun and prying eyes out. You will also need covers or something to block nesting birds. As far as security forget it. If they want your plane or anything in it they will break the plastic windows to get it. If you are worried about terrorist or someone stealing the whole plane then a prop lock might persuade them to take the plane tied down next to yours but keep in mind how easily a lock and chain can be cut with a bolt cutter. BTW getting into a hanger isn't much harder than cutting a prop lock in lots of cases so don't think a hanger is more secure.

[jrenwick]

I don't live that far from Willie, but I'm in an urban area while he's out in the country. In the upper Midwest, the costs of hangaring an airplane are very low compared to the coasts. The going monthly rental rates at reliever airports around the Twin Cities are in the $150-200 range for an unheated hangar. Outside the metro area I've heard of even lower rates. My heated 40x60 hangar last year cost me a total of $527/month, including opportunity costs -- not bad for housing three airplanes, or even two in comfortable conditions. (In some locales, you couldn't even hangar one for that!)

Given that it's relatively inexpensive to protect your airplane from winter weather and all the other hazards Bruce mentions, most of us opt to hangar our planes where hangar space is available. In the summers when I've had my J3 on floats, I've still rented hangar space for it at an airport with water access, rather than tie it down outdoors. (It lives on wheeled, towable dollies that I use to launch and recover after each flight.) I wouldn't consider leaving it outdoors -- too much danger of wind, hail and other kinds of damage. In part, it comes down to the security of knowing that, except possibly for rodents and insects, nothing has touched or moved my airplane since the last time I put it away.

[W.J.Langholz]

John
Yes it's windy. When North West Airlines was in it's hayday they would come to PQN or BKX to practice X-wind landings 90% of the time we have wind of some sort that's why all the wind turbines are here.
I grew up on a farm where everything,no mater what,was put under roof every night. Even my old co-op e-30 has a place in the shed. I can think of 10 airports in my area that don't have any planes tied down out side. I'll have to do some more poking around, maybe I'll find some one that has some space in theirs I could rent.

Bruce
You need to come and live over here by your aunte, we have need for you crazy chooper pilots here too With all your experience I'm sure Mayo 1 would love to have you, then you could park your "Rat" plane inside for the cost of your tie down now that's cool.

More thought will need to go into this I can see.

W.

Foggy today...no flying, went to the airport and did a oil change. Always makes a guy feel good doing something on the plane.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

But the question remains. Are all the planes in a hanger because they can be put there affordably or are they there because they need to be protected from something? That is what you need to discover.

[jrenwick]

But the question remains. Are all the planes in a hanger because they can be put there affordably or are they there because they need to be protected from something? That is what you need to discover.

I was trying to say that both are true. Weather can be very harsh in our "temperate" climate, and in the upper Midwest we're lucky that we can more easily afford to keep our airplanes out of the elements. If hangars were much more expensive or less available, you'd see more tied down outside in spite of the elements. For instance, in Alaska there seem to be many more airplanes tied down outside than I'm used to seeing, and I assume that's for economic reasons (i.e. you can't afford a hangar, but you still need an airplane), not because their winters are easier or shorter than ours.

[W.J.Langholz]

I was hoping for some of our friends from Canada would chime in.....I think they are still celebrating the Hockey medals

W.

[W.J.Langholz]

Who has your plane outside in "Tie Downs" and have you had and incedent ie: weather, theft, damage, and is your insurance Higher because it sits outside?

W.

[pojawis]

Insurance:
I think it's a little higher, but don't really have hard numbers on this. I'm told that the location/type of airport can impact the insurance premiums.

Covers:
I use Kennon covers and this year have employed thier "Lift Spoilers". I'm on the East Coast, not too far from Bruce. We experienced some very high winds here and I was curious to see the performance of the spoilers. They performed as advertised. In a 35mph wind with near 60mph gusts, the plane next to mine was rocking while mine was rock solid; barely moving at all. The wind was about 10 degrees off the nose during this observation.

Damage/Theft:
Last year, someone pinched my windshield cover and prior to that, my elt antenna. No problems in the 10 years prior nor in the past 9 months or more. I chalked it up to the little urchins who reside in the nearby housing development.

Did experience a hailstorm and damage from same. Insurance took care of replacing all control surfaces and even got a new rudder out of the deal. I threw in a few more dollars and had the whole plane repainted. As it turns out, the hail event was VERY localized; about a one mile radius with the airport at its center. Go figure.

Paying $50/month on the grass, but look for that to increase soon...

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I have a Cub that is hangered and my 170 outside. There doesn't seem to be any difference in insurance rates where I'm located. I've never had anything stolen from my airplane but several others at our airport have but it is isolated usually to an airplane theft ring which was the case here. They only took Garmin 430s and higher value newer avionics.

Of course you know about the wind damage to my airplane. But I won't hesitate to put another airplane outside. I could never afford a hanger so that is just out of the question for me. My Cub is hangered nearly free because I trade flying time in it for the hanger ceiling space as my Cub is stored on a lift. I did have to buy the lift.

I wouldn't be surprised to find airplanes stored in hangers have just as high of a claim rate as planes tied down due to hanger rash and of course the hanger collapsing. In fact the largest lose of airplanes I know of due to weather has been in hanger collapses.

[GAHorn]

I'm surprised that no one (especially Bruce and John Sowles.... (nick-nick, nudge-nudge).... hasn't mentioned the hazards of tying down outside associated with your neighboring aircraft.

Take a look at your neighbors and their tie-downs. Are they worn-out polypropelene ropes that look better suited for a fish trot-line? Or are they twisted-wire chains designed for junk-yard dog tie-outs? Or are they a dozen chains on a common cable anchored only at the edges of the ramp?

If so, then you are at pretty fair risk of damage from your neighbor's airplane breaking loose and colliding with yours.

EVERYONE: When you visit an airport...or when you go out to your regular field.... TAKE A LOOK AT THE TIE-DOWNS!
If they aren't truly secure and sturdy tie-downs....then visit with your airport manager or airport authority and complain. Follow up in WRITING that you are questioning the security of the tie-downs. (Much easier to collect a damage-award when you've given them a written warning.)

Is the airport security-system adequate and operational? Who is responsible for monitoring and maintenance of the system? Do the local police pay regular visits....especially at off-hours and at night? If not...WHY NOT? Such matters do not add in any measureable way to the cost of an airport's operations. (And many of the tie-downs and surveilance visits can be performed by the very folks with the most to gain.... the aircraft owners. Have you visited with or left a note on the windshields of the tied-down airplanes?)

It's time we all took a more active participation in our airport security. If we don't (and/or we rely upon that silly paper-tiger AOPA Airport Watch system) then WE are part of the problem. What do you guys think?

[3958v]

I hate to say it but I would sell my plane before I would tie it down outside for a long period of time. I once gave a ride to a local 170 owner who tied his plane down out side. As we returned to the airport and taxied past his 170 he asked the cost of my hangar and when he told me he commented that that was a lot of money. I thought "yeah but that bill gets easier and easier to pay every time I taxi by your plane." I still have a nice 170 and he now has a piece of cr__ that has not flown in years is loaded with corrosion and will probably never fly again. It would not even qualify for the rat plane award. When I travel I have to tie down outside but I always carry my own ropes which I bought from a local landscape supply center. They are the ropes that tree climbers use. Many airports have decent anchors but no good ropes. Bill K

[DaveF]

W.,

I kept airplanes outside for about 10 years (never my 170, though!). I know you're an experienced outdoor machinery guy, but since you asked, here's my list of considerations to keeping an airplane outside.
1. Wind. Double ropes/straps are a must. Use external gust locks. Tie down with nose into the prevailing wind. And as others have said, look out for the other guy. At an airport near here a few years ago a dumpster started moving in 90+ winds and hit 5 airplanes on its way down the ramp.
2. Birds and insects. Frequent inspection required.
3. Hail. As you know it's rare, but eventually all outside airplanes in tornado alley get dinged. Wing covers will help a lot.
4. Sun. Use a cabin cover. A little abrasion is much better than letting the cabin become a solar oven.
5. Water. An airplane kept outside is at real risk for water in the fuel. Keep fuel caps in good condition.
6. Snow. Use wing covers and keep it swept. Beware of melt and refreeze. You can find the airplane unflyable a long time after the snow is "gone".
7. Cold. Preheat will be needed more often and will be less convenient.
8. Dirt. More of it inside and out.
9. Misc. storage. Will the airport allow you to keep a storage box at the tiedown or will you have to carry everything in your car? Ladder, preheater, tools, oil, etc.
10. Time. You have to visit the airplane about once a week, whether you fly or not, to check tiedowns, covers, snow, etc. Pre- and postflight takes a lot more time without a hangar.

[hilltop170]

I have been flying in Alaska for 26 years. These are some of my observations and experiences with cold weather outside storage.

The first 20 years there were no hangars available, period. My planes sat outside. Now hangars have sprung up everywhere and I have one, it makes all the difference. They are mostly one-plane T-hangars, heated, and privately owned in Co-Op groups. Bigger hangars are also around but few have them due to cost of building, leases, taxes, insurance, etc.

Alaska has very little severe weather, the worst being occasional high winds a couple times a year. Wind damage is the biggest threat.

In the 20+ years my C-180 and C-170 sat outside at municipal airports around Anchorage there was never one incident of foul play. I never had a problem keeping the snow off because the most we ever seem to get at one time is 8-12" and that's not very often. The planes will handle that just fine as long as you don't unbalance the plane while sweeping the snow off. You can turn a plane over onto a wing if unbalanced enough and the tiedown rope breaks.

I had three incidents of wind damaged. The flaps on the 170 got beat up pretty good and the rudder on the 180 got damaged. Both were avoidable had control locks done their jobs (poor design). The pilot side door on the 180 blew open in another wind storm and broke the top hinge. That's when I started locking the deadbolt from the inside by access thru the baggage compartment. Problems solved. Education is expensive.

All in all, keeping planes outside for a combined total of 42 years in Alaska has not been much of a problem but it does require attention and continued effort. You can't walk away from them in October and come back in May and start flying.

As far as covers are concerned, I only use them when travelling. If the plane is going to sit for more than a few days I take them off, except for the engine cover which I leave on full-time to keep the engine cleaner and free of blown snow. The fabric covers made from solid fabrics will eventually catch the wind and come loose at some point and then will shread themselves if left alone for long. The new mesh covers will stay in place but will let ice form and stick to the plane between the mesh openings. The spoiler covers as previously mentioned work extremely well and can save a plane from damage in a strong wind. Mesh spoiler covers can be left on without fear of blowing off. They won't.

Do not leave a windshield cover on long term. Dust and grit will blow up under it and the windshield will be ruined. It's better to wash off an iced windshield when you're ready to fly with warm water rubbing with your hand. Your hand will be cold but the windshield will be saved. You'll need to wash it anyway if the plane sits outside and large volumes of water work best. A one gallon milk jug filled with hot water at home will clean the worst windshield. Sprays and lotions will freeze and smear the dirt and possibly damage the windshield if you rub it with a rag. Never wipe the windshield with anything if it is dry.