The International Cessna 170 Association

However it looks to you, it still looks a lot better than any Cessna tricycle ever did.

Harold

Before any of you go out to buy this project. FYI there is no data plate for the aircraft. You will be governed by experimental category only. I emailed the seller! Doug

Doug which project are you talking about?

canav8 wrote:Before any of you go out to buy this project. FYI there is no data plate for the aircraft. You will be governed by experimental category only. I emailed the seller! Doug

Since the plane does not have a type certificate, the data plate is not an issue. I wonder what it would take to call it experimental?

A certificated airplane with no data plate is not capable of being placed in the experimental category, (Does not meet the 51% rule.)

gahorn wrote:A certificated airplane with no data plate is not capable of being placed in the experimental category, (Does not meet the 51% rule.)

"Experimental" isn't necessarily "Amateur Built", the category (or class?) to which the 51% rule applies. Although, from looking at the state of that particular airplane, one might make the argument that it's no further along than some "quick build" kits. Determining "51%" just became more objective with some recent rule changes, but if you were successful in making that argument, Cessna would no longer be the manufacturer, and the airplane would then have no historical significance, in my mind the only reason to expend much effort on such a project.

Miles

N9149A wrote:Doug which project are you talking about?

Hi Bruce. It is the one that started this thread that is on Ebay.
George, Experimental does not need to meet the 51% rule. The 51% rule only applys for a repairman certificate to be issued for the Owner to do a condition inspection on their own aircraft.
Doug

A good experimental classification is "Experimental Exhibition". No 51% rule but you have to submit an annual program letter to your friendly FAA office telling them where you plan to fly and exhibit. Another one is "Experimental Racing". Maybe you could start a slow race category. "Experimental Research and Development" might be fun. Check out Part 21.

A buddy of mine has a turbine bird dog (Saia Marchetti 1019) in experimental exibition. It is a certified airplane but not in the USA. I flew it from Bend, Oregon to Anchorage. No problem. He sent the FAA a letter and that was it. Customs did not care what catagory it was in. No flight restrictions within 600nm of its designated base for a turbine, 300nm for a piston so it can be flown anytime, anywhere within the restriction area.

Doug, I didn't see the link in the first post to realize there was one of these actually for sale.

As others have pointed out there are many classifications of experimental. The one we are most familier with is an aircraft being built by home builder for their own education. This one seems to have the most restrictions to get into because the intent is the aircraft is to be built by educational purposes but seems to have the least restrictions after the aircraft qualifies. This aircraft would never qualify for this experimental category.

I'd think as Voorheesh noted that this aircraft would easily qualify for the experimental Exhibition category. There are restrictions and of courses some hoops to jump through for this. My friend has an aircraft in this category. He took a straight tail 150 and converted it to a tail dragger through an STC. OK so far but he couldn't leave well enough alone. He wanted more power and so essentially converted his 150 to the Sparrow Hawk engine prop combintation. That is not approved for the Cessna 150. After 5 years of wasting time trying to get that approved an FAA type suggested the Exhibition category. He can not fly more than 300 miles from his base without permission. He can't use the aircraft for commercial purpose. He must submit an itinerary for every place he plans to fly the airplane for prior permission. He can fly for maintenance and proficiency purposes anytime remaining within 300 nm. He's happy.

My previous comments were not intended to be an all-encompassing answer. My point, (in response to the question posed by Richard "What it would take to make it experimental") was that if there were no datatag (no records and no proof that it's a certificated airplane with a OEM mfr'r with a production certificate) then it would have to be in some OTHER category...and if Experimental were the intent ...the problem would be that it's made completely of Cessna-mfr'd parts...it would not meet a 51% rule. So.... no dice! The owner didn't make it (so it's not amatuer built) and the mfr'r didn't make it either.

Since it was (assumed) never certificated and he mentions manufacturing plans are included and you could document all of the work that went into it; could it be possible to license it as an experiment built based on plans?
The ad is off EBAY and I see he didn't get any bids, so someone might get a good deal if you have lots of time and even more money!
Dan

Even If you had the plans.... you still wouldn't have participated in the mfr by at least 51%.

My friend didn't build his 150 Sparrow Hawk tail dragger either. Cessna and Lycoming built most of it. But he did take a collection of parts which consisted of Cessna 150 and a larger than stock Lycoming and put them together. He is not a licensed mechanic and would be an amateur. Though he did not build 51%, he did do it for his own education and did some really nice work. It could not be licensed under the experimental amateur built category because he did not build 51% so it was licensed under experimental exhibition which is totally different. I know of a Clipped Wing Luscombe flying in the area under the same category.

Experimental Exhibition is a convenient "category" for aircraft that are not eligible for standard, restricted, or other experimental airworthiness certificates. It is entirely the owner's business where or why they want to exhibit their aircraft. Because it has a pink airworthiness certificate, an experimental exhibition aircraft will be issued special operating limitations and one of them is an annual program letter. The owner informs the FAA in writing where the aircraft will be operated. The FAA stamps the program letter "approved". It is the owner's business where the aircraft may go, period. If the owner changes their mind later in the year, simply send the FAA an amendment saying where they want to take their aircraft and request that the ammendment be approved. Make sure you carry your program letter or copy when you fly so you are "legal". You are not asking for permission. Operators of experimental aircraft must comply with 91.319 which has restrictions on flight over congested arears etc. These aircraft may not be used for commercial purposes but may be used for flight training. They require an annual condition inspection to ensure they are in a condition for safe flight. Our glider club in beautiful Avenal, CA has a Let 13 Blanik glider that is ineligible for a standard airworthiness certificate because it was originally used by the Czeck (sp?) airforce for pilot training and its serial# does not appear on the list of eligible L13s (TCDS). So it is in Experimental Exhibition and is on exhibit at Avenal for anyone who may be interested. It is a great flying bird and is essentially identical to a standard category L13. If any of you are out that way, stop by and maybe we can take you up for a flight.