Good Day everyone
My plane is currently sitting unhangared in the elements at our local field. I am located in a fairly cold Northern climate and have covers for the wings, tail, cowl and canopy.
I noticed that on numerous occasions, I have removed my wing covers and there is still quite a bit of frost build up on the wings as well as on the other surfaces that have not been covered (thus cancelling my flight).
Question - Are there any special techniques (concoctions etc) that would allow me to remove this frost easily? Moving the plane into a hangar to warm up is not an option. Is it a matter of just using a rag and trying to rub off?
I don't think that I have the only unhangared plane on these forums so I am really curious how others manage to fly in the winter.
Thanks!
Kevin
Ice and Frost Removal on wings!
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
if you can't hangar it (doesn't have to be heated) then you have 2 options, deice fluid (expensive) or mechanical removal.
you can get a little garden sprayer with the spray want and fill it with isopropyl alcohol, but part of the problem with that stuff is is takes a fair amount to melt the frost. and you have to worry about the misture running into control surface joints etc and refreezing.
I personally have ruined a few driver's licenses and credit cards removing frost (darn rivets) in times of "gotta go", you can also use a rope or gloves to polish the frost SMOOTH but that's not the best in my opinion. I prefer as much of it off the wing and tail surfaces as I can remove.
I'm sure the Alaska guys have more info, I'm not really a bush guy as even ND is mostly populated after a fashion. But I have flown a lot of freight and charters in the winter and you just do what you have to do.
you can get a little garden sprayer with the spray want and fill it with isopropyl alcohol, but part of the problem with that stuff is is takes a fair amount to melt the frost. and you have to worry about the misture running into control surface joints etc and refreezing.
I personally have ruined a few driver's licenses and credit cards removing frost (darn rivets) in times of "gotta go", you can also use a rope or gloves to polish the frost SMOOTH but that's not the best in my opinion. I prefer as much of it off the wing and tail surfaces as I can remove.
I'm sure the Alaska guys have more info, I'm not really a bush guy as even ND is mostly populated after a fashion. But I have flown a lot of freight and charters in the winter and you just do what you have to do.
'56 "C170 and change"
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
I once was stranded in Mammoth with 4 inches of ice and snow on a Hawker and needed to depart. A local hangar keeper had the answer and helped me out.
On a small trailer he had mounted an electric hot-water heater which he kept full of de-icing fluid, and to which he hooked up a small aircompressor. Unplugging the heater from the wall, he wheeled the trailer out to the airplane, started the gas-powered compressor, which supplied 60psi to the HOT outlet (which pushed the warm fluid out the cold outlet) to a pressurewasher which he used to spray down the airplane. We were ready to fly in 30 mins, and a Hawker is a big airplane for that sort of rig. He normally used it on his 210.
I believe he used pet-friendly anti-freeze for deicing fluid. I paid him for his fluid, which I think was about $150. Probably a bit steep for a 170 de-ice job, but just wanted to share the idea.
On a small trailer he had mounted an electric hot-water heater which he kept full of de-icing fluid, and to which he hooked up a small aircompressor. Unplugging the heater from the wall, he wheeled the trailer out to the airplane, started the gas-powered compressor, which supplied 60psi to the HOT outlet (which pushed the warm fluid out the cold outlet) to a pressurewasher which he used to spray down the airplane. We were ready to fly in 30 mins, and a Hawker is a big airplane for that sort of rig. He normally used it on his 210.
I believe he used pet-friendly anti-freeze for deicing fluid. I paid him for his fluid, which I think was about $150. Probably a bit steep for a 170 de-ice job, but just wanted to share the idea.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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futr_alaskaflyer
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:27 am
I live in a drier and colder climate than most of BC, true, and seldom do I have any ice forming under the covers, except for an occasional minimal, minimal spiderwebbing of frost.
I use a warm rag from my car rag soaked in warm isopropyl alcohol to polish off the leading edges and the prop, it takes care of what little frost I have. Probably won't work for true hoar frost like you probably get down there.
I have also used the hose off my Red Dragon heater to melt frost, but in the extreme cold we are dealing with up here it is a losing proposition, and like was said above you have to worry where the water is running to and refreezing.
I use a warm rag from my car rag soaked in warm isopropyl alcohol to polish off the leading edges and the prop, it takes care of what little frost I have. Probably won't work for true hoar frost like you probably get down there.
I have also used the hose off my Red Dragon heater to melt frost, but in the extreme cold we are dealing with up here it is a losing proposition, and like was said above you have to worry where the water is running to and refreezing.
Last edited by futr_alaskaflyer on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard
N3477C
'55 B model (Franklin 6A-165-B3 powered, any others out there?)
N3477C
'55 B model (Franklin 6A-165-B3 powered, any others out there?)
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futr_alaskaflyer
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:27 am
You mentioned frost on areas of the plane other than lift generating surfaces or propeller being part of your decision to forgo a flight...
Others can chime in here but I have not experienced any significant reduction in performance with residual snow or frost on top of the cabin or tail. A small increase in parasitic drag sure, to an amount that is unquantifiable. Brush or broom it as best you can. My concern is that the wings and tailfeathers are clean, and no ice is interfering with control surface movement, and no ice on top of the cowling that can become dislodged in flight to strike the windshield and scare the beejeezes out of me.
Others can chime in here but I have not experienced any significant reduction in performance with residual snow or frost on top of the cabin or tail. A small increase in parasitic drag sure, to an amount that is unquantifiable. Brush or broom it as best you can. My concern is that the wings and tailfeathers are clean, and no ice is interfering with control surface movement, and no ice on top of the cowling that can become dislodged in flight to strike the windshield and scare the beejeezes out of me.
Richard
N3477C
'55 B model (Franklin 6A-165-B3 powered, any others out there?)
N3477C
'55 B model (Franklin 6A-165-B3 powered, any others out there?)
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hilltop170
- Posts: 3481
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Kevin-
I agree with the other Richard's comments.
My plane sat outside in Alaska for years before hangars became readily available. I only put on covers if I was going to fly within a few days. If it was going to be more than a few days, I would take the covers off so the wind would not beat them up. I left the engine cover on all the time so snow would not pack into the engine compartment.
There was snow, frost, or ice to deal with all winter long. I found a 24" push broom with fairly soft bristles worked best to clean off the plane and not hurt the finish. Snow usually brooms right off down to the metal and does not adhere. If snow is 4"or more, take off only one or two broom widths from each side at a time to keep the wings balanced. Once the snow was broomed off, the broom could then be used to polish any remaining frost or ice crystals. It didn't have to be completely removed as long as it was polished smooth and not disrupting the airfoil.
If snow had melted and re-frozen and it was stuck hard to the plane, I didn't worry too much about it unless it was on the wings, horizontal, or vertical tail surfaces, then it must be removed. If there has been a real blizzard since you flew the last time, check inside the wings, tail, and rear fuselage for packed snow which can render the plane unairworthy until it is thawed out.
You'll notice a decrease in airspeed when there is ice or snow stuck on the plane. You'll notice the plane will usually be free of ice by the time you land due to sublimation or maybe a temperature inversion melted it while airborne. Then when you land, put the covers on quick before the frost forms back. Frost under the covers should not be a problem as long as you polish it smooth with a broom or rag before you fly.
I agree with the other Richard's comments.
My plane sat outside in Alaska for years before hangars became readily available. I only put on covers if I was going to fly within a few days. If it was going to be more than a few days, I would take the covers off so the wind would not beat them up. I left the engine cover on all the time so snow would not pack into the engine compartment.
There was snow, frost, or ice to deal with all winter long. I found a 24" push broom with fairly soft bristles worked best to clean off the plane and not hurt the finish. Snow usually brooms right off down to the metal and does not adhere. If snow is 4"or more, take off only one or two broom widths from each side at a time to keep the wings balanced. Once the snow was broomed off, the broom could then be used to polish any remaining frost or ice crystals. It didn't have to be completely removed as long as it was polished smooth and not disrupting the airfoil.
If snow had melted and re-frozen and it was stuck hard to the plane, I didn't worry too much about it unless it was on the wings, horizontal, or vertical tail surfaces, then it must be removed. If there has been a real blizzard since you flew the last time, check inside the wings, tail, and rear fuselage for packed snow which can render the plane unairworthy until it is thawed out.
You'll notice a decrease in airspeed when there is ice or snow stuck on the plane. You'll notice the plane will usually be free of ice by the time you land due to sublimation or maybe a temperature inversion melted it while airborne. Then when you land, put the covers on quick before the frost forms back. Frost under the covers should not be a problem as long as you polish it smooth with a broom or rag before you fly.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
I have a good friend in FSJ, Dieter Famel, if you know him or have the opportunity to meet him ask him questions. He has done a lot of bush work in 180's and Cubs.
What I have done is to use a tie-down rope to "rope the wings". A larger diameter rope than a tie-down rope would be better.........but, you need
two people and you just throw the rope over and saw away. Obviously you don't want a thick layer of ice on the wings or tail but the old karoate
chop usually gets rid of that if you have had covers on.
Buck Buchanan, Galena, AK
What I have done is to use a tie-down rope to "rope the wings". A larger diameter rope than a tie-down rope would be better.........but, you need
two people and you just throw the rope over and saw away. Obviously you don't want a thick layer of ice on the wings or tail but the old karoate
chop usually gets rid of that if you have had covers on.
Buck Buchanan, Galena, AK
Re: Ice and Frost Removal on wings!
Dieter runs one of the fueling establishments here at the airport. He also did a presentation at a "Rust Remover" session we had last spring. He has really been there and done it!buchanan wrote:I have a good friend in FSJ, Dieter Famel, if you know him or have the opportunity to meet him ask him questions. He has done a lot of bush work in 180's and Cubs.
Man it's a small world!
Kevin