Hello, I just purchased a 51 170A located in Kamloops BC it is in beautiful condition. I am going to pick it up on the 12th. I am curious as to how everyone else ties down their tail? do you do it with the tail wheel straight or cocked sideways. I used to own a 120 and always kept it straight. Does it make a difference? I have seen people do it both ways. Just wondering why? Thanks
Ken
How does everyone tie the tail down on their 170?
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
I'm not an Oldtimer, but I've never seen one cocked sideways! That would make the Rudder turn on a 55'. Or is that the idea!
I've seen the tail tied on top barrels, saw horses, etc., to keep the lift down in 60 mph wind.
Or tie-downs where ropes ran from the front-wing-tie-downs to the tail, to keep the fuselage straight.
I'm sure you'll be getting a shower of knowledge soon!
I've seen the tail tied on top barrels, saw horses, etc., to keep the lift down in 60 mph wind.
Or tie-downs where ropes ran from the front-wing-tie-downs to the tail, to keep the fuselage straight.
I'm sure you'll be getting a shower of knowledge soon!
If you will replace the AN7 bolt that holds the tailwheel to the spring with an eye-bolt PN 0642105 it will be easier to have something to tie the rope to. Either way, you should secure the rudder because it is easily blown against the stops and damaged. Do not lock the rudder to the vert. stab. at the rudder counter-blance, or you'll damage the rudder. Either do it like the owner's manual illustrates or make a "bra" for the tail nav lite and hook it to both ends of the horz. stab. like so: -----0----- .
I used polyurethane braided rope which can be fed back into itself with a "fid" (found at boat shops) to make the bra, and to loop one end back into itself (so that it tightens like a chinese finger puzzle) and placed a hook stolen from bungees at each end. I intend to write a short article and post pictures about this very shortly.
I used polyurethane braided rope which can be fed back into itself with a "fid" (found at boat shops) to make the bra, and to loop one end back into itself (so that it tightens like a chinese finger puzzle) and placed a hook stolen from bungees at each end. I intend to write a short article and post pictures about this very shortly.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
I like to park my 170 with the tailwheel in the straight (locked) position,if it was in the swivel mode someone's prop wash could swing the tail around & into another plane or whatever. That's why I quite often don't tie down but ALWAYS chock my wheels, especially on asphalt as opposed to grass. I've seen airplane get their tails blown around like I describe,I've also seen not one but about 4 different airplanes roll backwards off the ramp at my airport & down the bank onto the infield grass--there's a real gentle incline on the ramp that ya don't notice but once they start rolling,look out. Only one was damaged. USE CHOCKS!
Tying down: I used to tie the rope around the tailspring,resulting in a greasy mess on the rope (I belong to the well-greased-tailwheel school). Anymore,I try to park with the tailwheel on top of the tiedown,and just tie the rope around the wheel itself vertically. Incidentally,I use strap-type "bike binders" to tie the wings down,easier & more secure than ropes. I like to take a little strain on them,I think that if you leave a little play in the tiedown lines it'll just get worse & worse as the wind rocks the airplane.
George,tell me more about eyebolt p/n 0642105. Is that the Birddog eyebolt I've heard people talk about? How much is it,and who has it? Seems like I priced that eyebolt before & it was pretty spendy.
Eric
Tying down: I used to tie the rope around the tailspring,resulting in a greasy mess on the rope (I belong to the well-greased-tailwheel school). Anymore,I try to park with the tailwheel on top of the tiedown,and just tie the rope around the wheel itself vertically. Incidentally,I use strap-type "bike binders" to tie the wings down,easier & more secure than ropes. I like to take a little strain on them,I think that if you leave a little play in the tiedown lines it'll just get worse & worse as the wind rocks the airplane.
George,tell me more about eyebolt p/n 0642105. Is that the Birddog eyebolt I've heard people talk about? How much is it,and who has it? Seems like I priced that eyebolt before & it was pretty spendy.
Eric
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Dave, I always like to look at 170's! Why don't you just plan on coming to the Christmas party? (Posted in the Events section.)
Eric, the bolt, PN 0642105 costs $23.50 , is a genuine Cessna part, available from 662-846-0228 (Bird Dog, L-19 folks.) If your AN7 bolt has been there very long, you should probably replace it anyway. They tend to break or shear about every 500 hours/10 years or so, damaging your rudder with the flailing tailwheel. Same thing goes for the main tailwheel spring.
Eric, the bolt, PN 0642105 costs $23.50 , is a genuine Cessna part, available from 662-846-0228 (Bird Dog, L-19 folks.) If your AN7 bolt has been there very long, you should probably replace it anyway. They tend to break or shear about every 500 hours/10 years or so, damaging your rudder with the flailing tailwheel. Same thing goes for the main tailwheel spring.
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Hello Dave
I am a new member and owner of N1745D a '51 170A. I live in Palestine Tx. Anytime your over this way give me a call and i would be glad to help you out if i can. We have a pancake breakfast ($3.00) the first saturday of each month at the F.B.O here, so try to schedule for it if you would like.
Cheers, Randal
I am a new member and owner of N1745D a '51 170A. I live in Palestine Tx. Anytime your over this way give me a call and i would be glad to help you out if i can. We have a pancake breakfast ($3.00) the first saturday of each month at the F.B.O here, so try to schedule for it if you would like.
Cheers, Randal
Tying down
I have been flying tailwheel aircraft for about 30 years.
I have some personal rules about securing the aircraft:
NEVER leave the aircraft (even for a minute) without chocking the main wheels. I sometimes get laughed at for my chocks which are 8" lengths of 4" aluminium angle. It may look like overkill but the aircraft does not move. It is also a good idea to secure the chocks for each wheel together with a rope or chain as the aircraft rocking in the wind will "work" the chocks apart and reduce their effectiveness.
I do not leave the park brake on.
If possible, keep the aircraft hangared when not in use.
If a hangar is not available ALWAYS securely tie the aircraft down when left for any lenght of time (e.g. more than an hour or so)
ENSURE your tiedown ropes are in good condition. I have seen several aircraft overturned by the wind when frayed tiedowns let go.
Do not leave too much slack in the tiedown ropes as, if the wind lifts the aircraft, the more slack there is the greater the speed/inertia of the aircraft when the ropes go tight and the more chance there is of the rope breaking. I have seen this happen to aircraft in a violent wind also.
I always park with the tailwheel straight. This reduces the chance that the aircraft will be move sideways by propwash or wind. I agree with George's advice regarding locking the rudder.
The tail should be tied down so as to allow as little lateral and vertical movement as possible.
I am also a member of the greasy rope club. The idea
of using an eye bolt looks good. George, is there any paperwork (apart from a log book entry) required to fit the eye bolt as it is not standard equipment on the C170A?
David.
I have some personal rules about securing the aircraft:
NEVER leave the aircraft (even for a minute) without chocking the main wheels. I sometimes get laughed at for my chocks which are 8" lengths of 4" aluminium angle. It may look like overkill but the aircraft does not move. It is also a good idea to secure the chocks for each wheel together with a rope or chain as the aircraft rocking in the wind will "work" the chocks apart and reduce their effectiveness.
I do not leave the park brake on.
If possible, keep the aircraft hangared when not in use.
If a hangar is not available ALWAYS securely tie the aircraft down when left for any lenght of time (e.g. more than an hour or so)
ENSURE your tiedown ropes are in good condition. I have seen several aircraft overturned by the wind when frayed tiedowns let go.
Do not leave too much slack in the tiedown ropes as, if the wind lifts the aircraft, the more slack there is the greater the speed/inertia of the aircraft when the ropes go tight and the more chance there is of the rope breaking. I have seen this happen to aircraft in a violent wind also.
I always park with the tailwheel straight. This reduces the chance that the aircraft will be move sideways by propwash or wind. I agree with George's advice regarding locking the rudder.
The tail should be tied down so as to allow as little lateral and vertical movement as possible.
I am also a member of the greasy rope club. The idea
of using an eye bolt looks good. George, is there any paperwork (apart from a log book entry) required to fit the eye bolt as it is not standard equipment on the C170A?David.
Just thought I'd add that I use a block of hard (white) styrofoam
sandwiched between the pilot's seat frame and rudder pedals
to secure ("lock") the rudder. I have one of those seat rail
locks (the kind you get from Chief & wherever else) that keep
the seat(s) from inadvertantly sliding back should the seat real
pin fail or if the seat rail pin didn't fully engage one of the locking
holes.
I squish my block of foam as described above, set the seat rail
stop and... presto... my rudder is "locked". Care must be taken
with this method (select / cut the proper size block of foam) so
no pressure is applied to the tops of the rudder pedals (brakes)
while the aircraft is parked.
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP
sandwiched between the pilot's seat frame and rudder pedals
to secure ("lock") the rudder. I have one of those seat rail
locks (the kind you get from Chief & wherever else) that keep
the seat(s) from inadvertantly sliding back should the seat real
pin fail or if the seat rail pin didn't fully engage one of the locking
holes.
I squish my block of foam as described above, set the seat rail
stop and... presto... my rudder is "locked". Care must be taken
with this method (select / cut the proper size block of foam) so
no pressure is applied to the tops of the rudder pedals (brakes)
while the aircraft is parked.
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP
Tailwheel Eyebolts
On E-Bay for the last month, somebody is selling L-19 Tailwheel eyebolts.
Everytime one is sold, he lists another bolt. They typicallly sell for $32-35 each.
The current listing is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1871778193
Everytime one is sold, he lists another bolt. They typicallly sell for $32-35 each.
The current listing is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1871778193
Hello, David (CAS)!
I'll remind everyone again of my advice to totally disconnect and remove the parking brake hardware from the master cylinders. There are many stories of 170's (and others) departing the runway in ground loops from an inadvertently set/locked parking brake in a crosswind. The locking mechanism interferes with the firewall pad and gets set when full rudder is applied momentarily. (The pad lifts the locking lever on the master cylinder locking that wheel brake.) Then at touch-down things turn real nasty.
Busted!
The eye-bolt question is a good one. (Irritating, but good. 
)It is an approved Cessna L-19 part. Looking at FAR 43, a major alteration is defined as "Alterations of the following parts and alterations fo the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations: (skipping down) ...item (vi) landing gear...."
I'll contact Cessna this week to see if they've approved it for the 170, and I'll contact my FSDO as well.
(A valid argument might be made that it's only a substitute-standard hardware item. But with the wrong inspector, that might just get you labelled as 'argumentative'.)
I'll remind everyone again of my advice to totally disconnect and remove the parking brake hardware from the master cylinders. There are many stories of 170's (and others) departing the runway in ground loops from an inadvertently set/locked parking brake in a crosswind. The locking mechanism interferes with the firewall pad and gets set when full rudder is applied momentarily. (The pad lifts the locking lever on the master cylinder locking that wheel brake.) Then at touch-down things turn real nasty.
Busted!
The eye-bolt question is a good one. (Irritating, but good. )It is an approved Cessna L-19 part. Looking at FAR 43, a major alteration is defined as "Alterations of the following parts and alterations fo the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations: (skipping down) ...item (vi) landing gear...."I'll contact Cessna this week to see if they've approved it for the 170, and I'll contact my FSDO as well.
(A valid argument might be made that it's only a substitute-standard hardware item. But with the wrong inspector, that might just get you labelled as 'argumentative'.)
I would be a little leary of locking your rudder pedals, this can causes internal damage to the contol mechanism in high winds. It is better to use a gust lock like George described. 
A little word of caution about strap type tiedowns. Be sure to check their load rating, most are not nearly as strong as a good nylon rope. Also something I have seen happen a few times at my local airport is, even if you put some good tension on the straps, in a strong wind the plane rocks and moves with the flex in the gearlegs and tires enough to unhook the strap.
I like to go through my wing tiedown eyelet then go around the very top of the strut 360 degrees and back through the eyelet, this locks the rope on itself and allows you to suck the wing down as tight as you like and gives you somthing a little beafier than just the eyelet to tie to. After you come back through the eyelet you just do you favorite wing tie down not and you are done.
Shawn
A little word of caution about strap type tiedowns. Be sure to check their load rating, most are not nearly as strong as a good nylon rope. Also something I have seen happen a few times at my local airport is, even if you put some good tension on the straps, in a strong wind the plane rocks and moves with the flex in the gearlegs and tires enough to unhook the strap.
I like to go through my wing tiedown eyelet then go around the very top of the strut 360 degrees and back through the eyelet, this locks the rope on itself and allows you to suck the wing down as tight as you like and gives you somthing a little beafier than just the eyelet to tie to. After you come back through the eyelet you just do you favorite wing tie down not and you are done.
Shawn
