How does everyone tie the tail down on their 170?

[GAHorn]

Eye down is how Cessna and the Air Force/Army did it, but mechanics and knowlegeable Seargants in the field quickly reversed them into an "eye" up position. They fit much more airfield tie-downs that way and are easier to use.

[N170BP]

I would be a little leary of locking your rudder pedals, this can causes internal damage to the contol mechanism in high winds. It is better to use a gust lock like George described.
A little word of caution about strap type tiedowns. Be sure to check their load rating, most are not nearly as strong as a good nylon rope. Also something I have seen happen a few times at my local airport is, even if you put some good tension on the straps, in a strong wind the plane rocks and moves with the flex in the gearlegs and tires enough to unhook the strap.
I like to go through my wing tiedown eyelet then go around the very top of the strut 360 degrees and back through the eyelet, this locks the rope on itself and allows you to suck the wing down as tight as you like and gives you somthing a little beafier than just the eyelet to tie to. After you come back through the eyelet you just do you favorite wing tie down not and you are done.
Shawn

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand how this could
damage the control mechanicsm(s) during high winds. Afer all, the
"stock" average C-172 system utilizes a pin shoved down thru the
control yoke shaft that physically locks the controls from within the
cockpit, while the control surfaces are subject to "wind forces" pushing/
pulling & tugging on the cables and control mechanisms so-to-speak.
Why is this OK with the C-172 but not with the C-170? My thought is
my foam-block method allows for a little "give" in the system (as opposed
to the C-172 style pin thru the yoke shaft method) and the foam actually
soaks up some of the load as wind pressures are transmitted from the
rudder surface area to the cables, the pulleys, the rudder pedal
torque-tubes & rudder pedals, and finallly to the foam block (which, again, "yields" a little to the forces in question).

On another note, my other airplane has a "factory/stock" control
lock mechanism where you pull up on a handle on the cockpit
floor, and this engages a positive lock feature (physically locks the
stick in pitch and roll), while at the same time, pulls up on the primary
rudder cables about 1.5 inches or so (these cables run down the left & right floor-boards of the cockpit), and this additional tension on the
primary rudder cables comprises the "rudder lock" feature for the
aircraft (this is, what you might call, a built like a brick-bleep-house
aircraft, so all bets may be off!).

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[pdb]

Eye up or eye down?

I have mine eye up but the picture in ebay shows it eye down with a short shackle connecting to tie down rope. It looks like a neat installation IF there is adequate clearance to allow the tailwheel to swivel 360.

Has anyone tried it upside down?

[N1478D]

Mine is down. Thinking about trying it up, but it looks like it is one of those 6 one way, and half a dozen the other, type decisions. It works well, and sometimes the postion of the ground tie down would determine which is better, up or down.

[GAHorn]

L-19's left the factory with it down, and as soon as it got to Viet Nam the first thing all the mechanics did was reverse it to the up position. Up is where I've found it most useful.

[ak2711c]

Bela, as I understand it has to do particularly with the 170's control mechanism. Internally it is not as strong as other aircraft that have the yolk lock. This topic has been covered before on the forum and that is how I learned of it. How about it George whats your two cents, and what exactly is the weak link in the system
Shawn

[GAHorn]

We are a lazy society and Cessna catered to that propensity when they installed cockpit flight control locks.
When the controls are locked from the cockpit, wind loads are transferred from the flight control to the cable/pulley system with sometimes damaging results, and always with wear upon the system. Any shock loads punish not only the control surface and travel stops, but also every cable, pulley, and bracket in the system. The airplane cables/pulleys probably get more wear from that activity than all the flight-time the airframe will ever log. The best method is to physically/securely lock the controls externally.
(But the truth be known, I don't follow my own advice. I lock my ailerons/elevators with my seat-belt, although I lock my rudder externally with a rope-device of my own design such as I previously mentioned. I consider the rudder to be the most frail of all the controls and most likely to be damaged from high winds or prop blasts. Due to their horizontal orientation and their more robust contol-system, by the time the wind/blasts get so severe that the seat-belt restrained ailerons/elevator are damaged, then it's unlikely the airplane could have been saved anyway. But the rudder due to it's size and being vertically oriented, is much more likely to be injured even by light wind/blasts.)

[N1478D]

The rudder is the most likely control to be damaged. But, also, on the A models, the flaps do not have positive locking. They can be pulled down, or blown down when the wind is from behind. There are all kinds of methods to secure the flap to the aileron. Sporty's sells a nice round pad with foam protection that really works well. They need to be secured to the tie down ring by the strut to keep the wind from rocking them off though. I have seen flap locks on the ground from that, and the flaps banging around really hard.

[JDH]

I use mine eye up, it seemed easier to use for tying and is best for attaching "tail rope" when on skis (that's the rope you leave attached to the tail to able you to pick up and swing the tail when in snow). I got mine from Bird Dog too and it was a SS ring welded to a AN7 bolt. Pretty pricy, but slick. JD

[GAHorn]

The rudder is the most likely control to be damaged. But, also, on the A models, the flaps do not have positive locking. They can be pulled down, or blown down when the wind is from behind. There are all kinds of methods to secure the flap to the aileron. Sporty's sells a nice round pad with foam protection that really works well. They need to be secured to the tie down ring by the strut to keep the wind from rocking them off though. I have seen flap locks on the ground from that, and the flaps banging around really hard.

Heads up, all you "A" model owners: When you park your aircraft, lower full flaps and leave 'em locked down while you're away. Otherwise your flaps are NOT locked into any particular position, and strong winds, prop blasts, and (yechh) helicopters (ptooey) will bang your flaps! The external aileron gust-locks are inadequate for the purpose and simply pass the strain along to your aileron control circuit, unless you also install one at each wing root as well.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George, I only wish I could afford on of those "(yechh) helicopters (ptooey)". My 170 would be gone in a heart beat.
Talk about short take off and landings. Problem is even your 170 is faster than most.

Bruce
N9149A
WCAU Philadelphia, Chopper10 Pilot

PS I'm always careful and keep my chopper away from airplanes as much as possible.

[GAHorn]

George, I only wish I could afford on of those "(yechh) helicopters (ptooey)". My 170 would be gone in a heart beat.
Talk about short take off and landings. Problem is even your 170 is faster than most.

Bruce
N9149A
WCAU Philadelphia, Chopper10 Pilot

PS I'm always careful and keep my chopper away from airplanes as much as possible.

Ha! Bruce!
Which theory of helicopter flight do you subscribe to?
That which states helicopters fly because they beat the air into submission?
Or the one that says that helicopters make so much noise and vibration that the earth rejects them?
(Just good-natured kidding of course, but you realize that oxymorons like "amicable divorce" and "army intelligence" are right up there with "helicopter pilot"? )

[N1478D]

George, I only wish I could afford on of those "(yechh) helicopters (ptooey)". My 170 would be gone in a heart beat.
Talk about short take off and landings. Problem is even your 170 is faster than most.

Bruce
N9149A
WCAU Philadelphia, Chopper10 Pilot

PS I'm always careful and keep my chopper away from airplanes as much as possible.

Ha! Bruce!
Which theory of helicopter flight do you subscribe to?
That which states helicopters fly because they beat the air into submission?
Or the one that says that helicopters make so much noise and vibration that the earth rejects them?
(Just good-natured kidding of course, but you realize that oxymorons like "amicable divorce" and "army intelligence" are right up there with "helicopter pilot"? )

Is that anything like a vegatarian helicopter pilot trying to figure out if it is ok to eat animal crackers?

[N170BP]

We are a lazy society and Cessna catered to that propensity when they installed cockpit flight control locks.
When the controls are locked from the cockpit, wind loads are transferred from the flight control to the cable/pulley system with sometimes damaging results, and always with wear upon the system. Any shock loads punish not only the control surface and travel stops, but also every cable, pulley, and bracket in the system. The airplane cables/pulleys probably get more wear from that activity than all the flight-time the airframe will ever log. The best method is to physically/securely lock the controls externally.
(But the truth be known, I don't follow my own advice. I lock my ailerons/elevators with my seat-belt, although I lock my rudder externally with a rope-device of my own design such as I previously mentioned. I consider the rudder to be the most frail of all the controls and most likely to be damaged from high winds or prop blasts. Due to their horizontal orientation and their more robust contol-system, by the time the wind/blasts get so severe that the seat-belt restrained ailerons/elevator are damaged, then it's unlikely the airplane could have been saved anyway. But the rudder due to it's size and being vertically oriented, is much more likely to be injured even by light wind/blasts.)

Ineresting, thanks! I'm helping (completely) rebuild an early C-180
and it looks remarkably like my C-170 from the forward door-posts
aft (no, I didn't go mic. every pulley bracket and measure every
cable dia.!). Fortunately, although my 170 is tied down outside,
it's in what you might call a "sheltered cove" (large trees, hangars/houses
surround it from every angle). That being said, like most owners,
I wish my 170 was tucked away in a nice, big, dry / heated hangar....

Do you folks have a drawing / sketch of the preferred method to
tie the rudder to the elevators (or horizontal or whatever)?

I also secure my elevators/ailerons with the seat-belt. Is there
a better method (short of drilling a hole down thru the yoke
ala C-172)?

TIA,

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[GAHorn]

Unless you like making expensive mistakes, do not go drilling any holes in your yoke. It would only make it unairworthy! (There's no bracket to put the control lock thru anyway.) The 170 Owner's manual suggests the seat-belt routine as acceptable.
If you don't mind the expense, trouble, carry around extra loose equipment in the airplane, and want to go first class then purchase/make some external control locks such as those illustrated in the owner's manual and other places or sold by Sporty's. (But be aware of the previously mentioned caution on 170/170A models and their flaps. And do not ever, ever put such a lock on the upper part of your rudder or you'll some day come out to the airport and find it bent!)