Dip Stick

[GAHorn]

...What do you mean by the term "stick"?

DIPstick. Guess I shouldn't have assumed that you didn't assume I wasn't changing the subject.

OH! You mean ROD! The Oil Gauge Rod!

The IPC for the engine (same IPC as for our C145/O300 engines) specifies to order the Oil Guage Rod by specifying the engine, and exact airplane model, and year. The SIL 00-7A to which your previous post refers, stipulates that for the Swift, using enigne C-125-2, the correct Oil Guage Rod is PN A36218.
(So I guess the answer is not "yes"...but in fact is No. Because in fact, there was a specific one for the Swift, I would not use the same item in either the 145 engine or the 170.)

[cessna170bdriver]

The IPC for the engine (same IPC as for our C145/O300 engines) specifies to order the Oil Guage Rod by specifying the engine, and exact airplane model, and year. The SIL 00-7A to which your previous post refers, stipulates that for the Swift, using enigne C-125-2...

enigne? Are we getting partially dyslexic in our advanced dotage??

...the correct Oil Guage Rod is PN A36218.
(So I guess the answer is not "yes"...but in fact is No. Because in fact, there was a specific one for the Swift, I would not use the same item in either the 145 engine or the 170.)

My guess is that the PN A36218 is calibrated for a stock Swift's particular deck angle. Also, since the "oil gauge rod" is an airframe part, it should stay with the airplane when the engine get's upgraded to the 145. This is just conjecture on my part, and was just curious what the STC specified, if anything.

[steve grewing]

Something that confuses me:
My engine has the correct part number and color dipstick in it per the old Cessna SNL or whatever it was. When I initially serviced the engine with oil after build-up, it took 10.5 quarts to bring it up to 8 qts on the stick. (I put 9 quarts in it then accomplished the initial engine run.) It has the FM spin-on oil filter. On the initial oil change, I put 9 qts in it and it hit the "7" on the stick after leak check and cool-down. I added one (1) additional quart to bring it up to "8" on the stick. During operation (mainly stop-and-go's) it would consume a quart in 12 to 15 flight hours. I think the majority of it was thrown out as evidenced by the belly having been well lubricated. I decided on the second oil change to leave it at "7" on the stick after reading many forum topics related to this. Oil consumption has declined significantly. Am I missing something as the nine (9) quarts should have hit the "8" by my way of thinking? (Which BTW my wife on occasion has told me is flawed.)

On a side note: I used Aeroshell 100 straight mineral oil for the first 10 hours and Phillips X/C 20W/50 (new ECI cylinder assemblies) since. (I opened the filter and was initally alarmed at the volume of copper and other non-magneto particles. I decided to ignore it and continue on to the second oil/filter change.) To date with 82.5 tach hours (95.0 Hobbs) since overhaul, the engine has averaged one (1) quart of oil per 20.6 tach hours (23.8 Hobbs) AFTER the initial 10 hours.

Regards,

Steve

[GAHorn]

I'm puzzled by that too, Steve. You're too experienced to make a simple arithmetic error, ...but that's the first thing that pops into mind. If you put in 9 qts (lets presume the filter takes a whole qt....it doesn't but let's say it does) then after running the engine and allowing it to drain back down for 30 mins or so, it should read 8 qts with the correct dipstick.
If it reads overly full, then at first glance, it seems you have the incorrect dipstick, or the dipstick tube in the sump has slipped or is not correct.
Try locating the PN on the lower end of the dipstick (and if it's a recent mfr dipstick, it probably also has a short metal "tag" wrapped around the handle specifying "170"...if it's the correct 628410A1.

[steve grewing]

George,

I was hoping I wasn't just being ignorant and just missing something obvious. I suspected I might have the incorrect rod also. But the p/n stamped on it is correct per the SNL and was the same p/n as stamped the rod on my spare engine which is an O-300A removed from a C170B. Compared side to side, they are identical. I then suspected the tube into which the dipstick is inserted had been incorrectly installed. I measured the exposed length of the tube my spare engine and it is exactly the same to my eye. The subsequent oil change yielded the same results when the engine was serviced with nine quarts of oil.

Steve

[GAHorn]

OK, lets get specific then... EXACTLY what is the number stamped on your dipsticks?

[jrenwick]

My guess is that the PN A36218 is calibrated for a stock Swift's particular deck angle. Also, since the "oil gauge rod" is an airframe part, it should stay with the airplane when the engine get's upgraded to the 145. This is just conjecture on my part, and was just curious what the STC specified, if anything.

I have a copy of that STC. The instructions read, in part:

Step 1. Remove Continental C-125-2 engine.
Step 2. Install Continental O-300-A engine using same or identical motor mount, bolts, baffles, exhaust system, wiring, plumbing, fuel pump, airscoop, carburetor and cabin heater systems, and oil cooler and lines, no modification necessary.
Step 3. Hook up all controls: throttle, carburetor heat control and mixture control, no modification necessary....

The rest says basically put the airplane back together with the new prop, no modifications necessary, redo W&B, add placards, submit 337. No mention of sticks or rods in the instructions. Next time I see Jim Montague, I'll ask him what he did. He might have an interesting story about it!

[steve grewing]

George,

I am in SAV but will be home next week. I'll get the actual part number at that time and let you know. I don't have the CD of the old Cessna SNL, bulletins, etc. with me to look it up there.

Thanks,

Steve

[GAHorn]

George,

I am in SAV but will be home next week. I'll get the actual part number at that time and let you know. I don't have the CD of the old Cessna SNL, bulletins, etc. with me to look it up there.

Thanks,

Steve

Yeah, ... I have a copy of the SIL 007A... but I want us to actually read the pn that's ON the dipstick.

[170C]

Boy, I never stop being mystified by things I read or hear about airplanes (kinda like women ) George, you are saying that an oil dipstick/gauge is not an engine part? That it is an airframe part? I am not really questioning your knowledge, just shocked by it. I can understand a voltage regular being airframe because it isn't a part of the engine and is attached to the airframe. Same would seem to follow with other firewall mounted items including possibly the firewall mounted oil filter. Geeze maybe the Bartone exhausts are airframe too? Seriously (I have been this entire post) What other things do the fed's consider to be airframe that more commonly are thought of as engine items? Please advise. I would have lost a bet on that dipstick Not being an AI or A&P there is a lot I don't know so educate me.

thanks.

Frank

[GAHorn]

Generally, anything that is specific and/or unique to the airframe rather than the engine, would be considered an airframe part. Starter, generator, vacuum pump, hydraulic pumps, etc. are sometimes confused to be engine parts, when they are actually accessories associated with the airframe. The prop spinner, the prop, prop governor, dipstick, exhausts, and portions of the engine induction system such as the carb heat plenum, etc.
If the item requires a change of the airframe's equipment list, it would not be considered part of the engine either, such as certain instrumentation probes/leads/thermocouples, etc. Generally, such items require notation in the airframe log, rather than the engine log. (It's pretty common for folks to log a starter or generator replacement in the engine log, but technically it belongs in the airframe log.)
Trivia: An annual inspection does not actually need to be logged in the engine log at all because it's an inspection of the airframe, which includes the engine as an airframe component. Any work performed on the engine in conjunction with that inspection, such as the spark plug cleaning, oil change, etc., or periodic inspection might be logged in the engine log.... but it's not necessary (or technically even correct) to log an annual inspection in an engine log.

[170C]

WOW! Wonder how many logbooks have been done incorrectly by A&P's and or AI's? You could have fooled me! (But then it doesn't take much to fool me )

Thanks George.

[jrenwick]

Just to stir the pot a little, would you use the "original" C-125 Swift stick in the C-145/O-300?

Miles

I don't quite follow the question.

Specifically, on the 145hp Swift STC, would you keep the stick from the 125 that came out of it? My guess would be "yes" since I think the basic difference in the engines is the crankshaft stroke, plus there was never a stick specifically made for the C145/O300 in the Swift.

Miles

I asked Jim Montague (the Swift "answer man") about this. He said no, the C125 dipstick won't work in an O-300; they're different. He said you'd probably want a dipstick out of a 170 for the O-300 Swift. So I looked at both of mine, and they're different. The oil level in the 170 is at least an inch higher for the same number of quarts than in my Swift, and I believe they both read correctly. (This makes sense, because the 170 seems to stand at a greater angle to the ground than the Swift does.) In the end, I don't know what my Swift's dipstick came out of, and Monty, who did the engine swap on my Swift, doesn't remember either.

Monty also said you could recalibrate a rod and cut new notches in it. There's one guy here who did that after machining all the old notches off!

There: more than you really wanted to know about dipsticks and oil measuring rods!

Best Regards,

John

[steve grewing]

George,

P/N on my dipstick is "531081" per the SL. I emailed you a photo as I don't know how to do pictures here.

Steve

[GAHorn]

I don't see that PN anywhere I can research it, Steve. It MAY simply be a superceded PN,.... but all I can say it... the CORRECT, CURRENT part number for the dipstick in a C145/O300 powered 170 is: 628410A1