Buying a 170B

Boiler Bill · Post by **Boiler Bill** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:35 am

Hello Everyone,

Im the new guy to this site, this is my first post. Im in the process of buying a very nice 1952 170B. I have been reading about and looking at other 170s trying to learn everything I can about them. I know that I have to change to the later landing gear, Lady gear. This plane of course is the 0145 and has very low times on the engine and airframe. Records show that it was ground looped at one time, then restored to the present condition.
Could you guys help me with the things I should look for on the pre-buy inspection with a good cessna 170 mechanic. These are some of the areas I should check.
1. Gear boxes for cracks ect.
2. rear bulkheads in tail section
3. Loose rivets/damage

Im sure there is alot more to look at.
I will also be looking to swap out the stock softer gear right away, any one out there have a set of later gear forsale ?

Weather permitting, I will bring this plane home at the end of Feb. to the Seattle Washington area.

Thanks alot guys

Bobo · Post by **Bobo** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:50 pm

Bill,

About 'Having to Change Landing Gear" I have owned and been flying
a C170A 1949 for 40 years and the landing gear works just fine. I believe
changing the landing gear is a nice to have, unless the gear has been
damage, it works just fine.
Just my 2 cents.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:13 pm

Welcome Bill. We live at Stuart Island in the Summer. Look forward to seeing you sometime.

Do a search here on prebuy inspections and also on landing gear. This has been hashed over many times. Then post further questions.

Dave

170C · Post by **170C** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:18 am

Don't get a pre buy inspection. Get a disinterested AI or one with your interests in mind and do a full blown annual so you will know as much as possible what you are getting.

Good Luck!

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:55 am

Ditto Ole Pokey's comments. There is no standard for a "pre purchase inspection", but there IS a standard for an annual. Do an annual, find the problems, work out the repairs with the owner and adjust/negotiate the selling price as appropriate. When you're done you will "know" what you have and the aircraft will be airworthy. If you just do a "pre buy", you won't know for sure what is waiting to bite you until that first annual 6, 8, 10 months later and then you'll find the things that were missed in the pre buy - surprise, surprise. If the owner is reluctant to go along with the annual instead of a pre buy then you need to question whether this airplane has some skeletons in the hangar.

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:05 am

Ditto the comments on the landing gear. My 52 has the stock gear, and it's fine. Changing to the later model gear or 180 gear doesn't come under the heading of must have modifications, at least for normal paved and grass strips operations.

Spend the money on shoulder harnesses, solid axles, Cleveland brakes, ect. George Horn has a good list of must have mods as a "sticky" at the top of this page. Same advice with the pre-buy inspection - get an annual instead. A friend of mine with a Commanche 180 he just purchased is going through hell right now, because his "pre-buy" didn't catch the fact his airplane has an illegal prop (not on the TCDS) Russ Farris

pdb · Post by **pdb** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:16 am

russfarris wrote:Ditto the comments on the landing gear. My 52 has the stock gear, and it's fine. Changing to the later model gear or 180 gear doesn't come under the heading of must have modifications, at least for normal paved and grass strips operations.

Russ Farris

I agree completely. I have a 53B with standard gear and it works just fine for me on pavement or off field. I have no experience with the heavier gear but see no need at all to spend the money since it works just fine as is. Maybe those other guys ought to be spending more money on gas to get in more practice.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:43 pm

Ditto, Ditto on the landing gear. not a requirement to change it out.

Boiler Bill · Post by **Boiler Bill** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:13 am

Hi you Guys,
Thanks for all the good ideas on the landing gear and the pre-buy. I have one question. The plane I want to buy just had a full annual about two or three months ago and has only flown twice since then. Is it recommended that I get another full annual done so soon ? instead of a pre-buy inspection. Im looking forward to meeting alot of you guys and now I find out several live close to my home. These 170s have such a nice classic look to them that I have to wounder, is it better to keep them as origianal as possible ?

I did find some 180 gear in Bellingham Washington and he wants $2000. for them. I have to wounder because I did see a add for early 170 Gear for $275. for each side. I asked them about a left and right Lady Gear for the 170B and they said they were out. Im guessing they are the same price at $275. per side. Maybe the 180 gear costs more?

After your help about the gear, I will wait till I fly the plane to see if it even needs changing.

Thanks alot you guys, Ive got the buyers jitters alright, guess you have been there.

Boiler Bill

3958v · Post by **3958v** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:29 pm

Bill You should pay for your own annual. There are all kinds of annuals out there just as there are all kinds of inspections on cars. There are some who charge so little that it is impossible to do everything that should be done at annual time. There are others who don't really know these old airplanes well. I suggest you get a copy of the organizations directory and call a few members who live in the area where the plane is for sale and talk to them about who they use for annuals. Quite worrying about the D____ gear it will be fine for years. Unless someone does not know what they have your not going to find the "lady leg" gear for $275. Much more important than gear legs are the axles. I would recommend some kind of ski axle. You definitely don't want to have hollow aluminum axles. Good luck jitters are normal when spending that kind of money but I would do it again on my plane in a heart beat. Bill K

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:42 pm

Bill

I would take the plane to John Ring in Bellingham. Whatcom Territory Aero Service Inc. 360-647-2376. John has a small shop, I think three employees. He owns a 170B in pieces that is slowly being restored so he knows the airplane.

You want to pay for an annual because you want that detailed of an inspection. An annual has a specific inspection checklist and procedure. It won't be much higher than a "pre-buy" (whatever that is) because you are not paying for any repairs, unless you buy it. Trust me, I've bought about 40 airplanes and know how to get "burned"

Dave

Well now that I've re-read your initial post I'm not sure the plane is presently in your area.....

KMac · Post by **KMac** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:26 am

The important thing about the gear legs seem to be that they are aligned correctly and don't have any cracks (esp. around the axle bolts) or damage to the hardened surface. Mine has the original gear legs, goes straight (tire wear is even) and is pretty forgiving.

Definately have an annual done. If you like working on your plane see if you can assist. In the 170A owners manual there is a check list for 100 hour inspections that may help catch the high points (I think it is similar for the B model). You will probably find things you will want to have fixed. When I bought my plane I helped the mechanic take it all apart for the inspection and they put it together for me after I left. I bought mine from out of state and didn't have enough time off to hang around and complete the annual. Probably takes about 2 full (8-10 hour) days or more to do a good complete annual depending on what repairs need to be made.

You can't beat the 170 for a great personal airplane. They are relatively inexpensive to maintain and fly and they stand out in the crowd of nose draggers. My experience is that owning a 170 is kind of like owning a very cool classic car. I haven't regretted buying mine!

Hope this helps.

Kevin

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:21 am

An annual "inspection" does not include any repairs or other maintenance
or AD compliance. I would certainly question the competency of any IA that needed more than one day to do a simple airplane like a C-170. I should think that clearing any discrepencies or recurring, or other, ADs found on the inspection would be the responsibility of the seller.
The buyer should be responsible for only the cost of the annual inspection unless he or she authorizes otherwise.

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:52 pm

Bill one thing you might want to look at if you get to changing your main gear legs later on is that there are two different styles. The ones I've always heard refered to as the "lady legs" are the ones with the forward sweep to them. There may be some pros to having the wheels further forward like that, however I've talked with one fellow who has the lady legs on his 170 and he wished they were straight because this reduces the weight on the tailwheel. The further foward your main wheels are the more weight sits on the tailwheel, which makes it harder to move around in the dirt. Something to think about anyway.

On the annual thing I'd offer the same advice as most of the others here, but with one other point since you live in the same neck of the woods as me. Getting the annual done now isn't such a bad thing since your next one will be due in Jan 2007..............................when the weather will be just about as crappy then as it has been for the last several weeks. It sure beats having to ground your plane when the sun is shinning.

You have looked at it haven't you? If not I would suggest it's worth a couple hundred to fly out on a cheap seat, see it, fly it, and go through it with an amicable mechanic. Then pre-buy jitters might turn into serious anticipation.
Chris

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:15 am

The so called "Lady Legs" landing gear became standard production about mid 1953 on the C-170B. The axle center line is NOT forward of the position on the original type landing gear. The steel leg is thicker and stiffer than the earlier type.
The second and subsequent series of landing gear legs used on the C-180 had the axle center line moved forward approximately 3 3/4 inches, apparently to correct a nose heavy condition caused by the weight of the larger engine and the CS prop.

The International Cessna 170 Association

Buying a 170B

Buying a 170B

New 170B

Pre-Buy