Anyone here installed a halon extinguisher in a secure but convenient location accessible to the front seats, if so, any product recommendations, location suggestions, mounting methods?
Bruce Hain
4234N
26263
Fire extinguisher install
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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Robert Eilers
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 12:33 am
Fire Extinguisher Install
Mine is mounted on the floor between the fuel selector valve and the flap lever.
I can't imagine how you did that Robert. (or do you have a different airplane than a C-170?)
That's a really good question, Bruce. I spent a lot of time dealing with this problem when I mounted my 2 lb Halon extinguisher. I simply couldn't find a good, secure place to install it that was obvious. I looked/considered all the places I'd seen utilized in other airplanes such as at the doorposts...on the control column between the pilot/copilot's rudder pedals, on the floor between the pilot's seats.... somewhere on the framework of the seats themselves. (My C-206 had it mounted sideways on the copilot seat front vertical legs. It could be removed by sliding it towards the pilot. But this location doesn't work in the 170 for several reasons, not the least of which is the possible interference with the flap lever, should the flaps be deployed. I tried every method imaginable, yet I could not find a way to mount it on the seat structure in such a way as to allow it to be accessed, yet not allow it to become a hazard in turbulence or in an accident. I was especially keen to install it so as to be able to remove it by sliding it rearward, and out from beneath/behind the copilots seat, but was never able to find a way to do it. Not to mention the fact that the seat legs/frame is not easily available with original seat-skirts installed.)
The IPC shows the factory installation upon the seat structure, but it is not detailed sufficiently to understand exactly how/where the thing is actually attached, or access is gained should it be required. (Not to mention the fact that the unit illustrated appears to be an antiquated water-acid type which is famously inadequate for fighting aircraft fires in general, and electrical or fuel fires in particular.)
Installing it behind the copilot's seat I found to be undesireable because 1) it interfered with the rear passenger's foot-room and 2) it seemed to be an ominously visible object likely to be either tampered with or discouraging to guests aboard the aircraft, but most of all 3) in the event of an actual fire access to it would likely be blocked by either the passenger or by luggage/cargo stuffed behind the copilot's seat (which in any event would most likely be occupied by the pax and slid back, jamming the extinguisher against rear-floor storage/rear seat and away from easy access.
I finally solved my dilemna by installing it beneath the rear passenger seat, on the copilot's side of the rear seat's forward, centrally-located support-leg. I attached it to the central support leg using 2.5" wide velcro tape of industrial strength, which also had industrial strength adhesive-backing.
(First I wrapped a "hook" portion of the velcro completely around the circumference of the extinguisher's middle, like a 2.5" wide "band" of velcro wrapped all the way around the ext.) I wrapped another "loop" piece of that type velcro about a foot long around the center-support of the bench seat immediately aft of where it rested on the floor. (This part of the seat leg actually is slightly above the carpet, and runs horizontally aft towards the rear of the seat.) I stuck the velcro to itself, such that about six inches of velcro was taped to itself after being wrapped once around the 1/2" tubing of which the seat leg is constructed. The six-inch long doubled velcro lays upon the carpet, laid out toward the copilot's side of the airplane, and resting on the floor. The fire extinguisher is laid upon that "loop" velcro, with it's own wrapping of "hook" velcro upon that six inch section. The handle of the fire ext. is pointed toward the pilot's side of the airplane, and resting immediately aft of the vertical portion of the bench seat's central support leg.
This should prevent the ext. from becoming a missile should the aircraft come to an abrupt stop, because the ext cannot move forward due to it's handle being restricted from fwd movement by the center benchseat leg,...and the ext. cannot move upward because it's actually located below the rear seat. (Even if it should break loose, it would only slam against the underside of the bench seat. But in any case it cannot break loose in my opinion, because the "loop" of velcro wrapped about the center-leg actually "floats" and would allow the ext to lift off the floor, strike the seatbottom, and then come to rest again on the carpet. The ext is restricted from fwd movement (because it's handle lies behind the vertical seat leg preventing fwd movement), and aft movement is neither likely, possible, nor dangerous. Meanwhile, the ext. is readily available to either front seat occupant without the need for them to bend forward (an unnatural activity, and one not likely to be pleasureable in the event of an instrument panel fire.)
The use of the ext. must be briefed however, as it requires "rolling" it towards the copilots sidewall before the velcro will release it. It is easiliy done with only one hand, but it must be actualy "rolled" in order to cause the velcro to release it. Simply pulling on the exgtinguisher will not dislodge it because the extinguisher's handle is behind the center seatleg and cannot be brought fwd until the ext is moved/rolled approx 4 inches to the right side of the airplane,.... And also because the velcro is simply too strong to simply overpower by pulling. (Unrolling the ext off the loop of velcro is simple however.)
If my description is too convoluted, and you think you'd like to consider the method, then PM me with your email address and I'll take a pic and make a sketch to assist you.
PS- The industial strength velcro I used came from the fabric/sewing notions section of WalMart. It comes in a box, hung from a peg and costs less than $7 for several feet of the stuff. It's about 2.5' wide by about 4' long. I made a "belt-loop" of the stuff one time about 6 inches long and then with a 3 or 4 inch square of it's partner, stuck a cordless phone to it. Who needs a belt-clip? I mow the yard wearing it, and although I can't hear it ring, it never falls off my belt!
That's a really good question, Bruce. I spent a lot of time dealing with this problem when I mounted my 2 lb Halon extinguisher. I simply couldn't find a good, secure place to install it that was obvious. I looked/considered all the places I'd seen utilized in other airplanes such as at the doorposts...on the control column between the pilot/copilot's rudder pedals, on the floor between the pilot's seats.... somewhere on the framework of the seats themselves. (My C-206 had it mounted sideways on the copilot seat front vertical legs. It could be removed by sliding it towards the pilot. But this location doesn't work in the 170 for several reasons, not the least of which is the possible interference with the flap lever, should the flaps be deployed. I tried every method imaginable, yet I could not find a way to mount it on the seat structure in such a way as to allow it to be accessed, yet not allow it to become a hazard in turbulence or in an accident. I was especially keen to install it so as to be able to remove it by sliding it rearward, and out from beneath/behind the copilots seat, but was never able to find a way to do it. Not to mention the fact that the seat legs/frame is not easily available with original seat-skirts installed.)
The IPC shows the factory installation upon the seat structure, but it is not detailed sufficiently to understand exactly how/where the thing is actually attached, or access is gained should it be required. (Not to mention the fact that the unit illustrated appears to be an antiquated water-acid type which is famously inadequate for fighting aircraft fires in general, and electrical or fuel fires in particular.)
Installing it behind the copilot's seat I found to be undesireable because 1) it interfered with the rear passenger's foot-room and 2) it seemed to be an ominously visible object likely to be either tampered with or discouraging to guests aboard the aircraft, but most of all 3) in the event of an actual fire access to it would likely be blocked by either the passenger or by luggage/cargo stuffed behind the copilot's seat (which in any event would most likely be occupied by the pax and slid back, jamming the extinguisher against rear-floor storage/rear seat and away from easy access.
I finally solved my dilemna by installing it beneath the rear passenger seat, on the copilot's side of the rear seat's forward, centrally-located support-leg. I attached it to the central support leg using 2.5" wide velcro tape of industrial strength, which also had industrial strength adhesive-backing.
(First I wrapped a "hook" portion of the velcro completely around the circumference of the extinguisher's middle, like a 2.5" wide "band" of velcro wrapped all the way around the ext.) I wrapped another "loop" piece of that type velcro about a foot long around the center-support of the bench seat immediately aft of where it rested on the floor. (This part of the seat leg actually is slightly above the carpet, and runs horizontally aft towards the rear of the seat.) I stuck the velcro to itself, such that about six inches of velcro was taped to itself after being wrapped once around the 1/2" tubing of which the seat leg is constructed. The six-inch long doubled velcro lays upon the carpet, laid out toward the copilot's side of the airplane, and resting on the floor. The fire extinguisher is laid upon that "loop" velcro, with it's own wrapping of "hook" velcro upon that six inch section. The handle of the fire ext. is pointed toward the pilot's side of the airplane, and resting immediately aft of the vertical portion of the bench seat's central support leg.
This should prevent the ext. from becoming a missile should the aircraft come to an abrupt stop, because the ext cannot move forward due to it's handle being restricted from fwd movement by the center benchseat leg,...and the ext. cannot move upward because it's actually located below the rear seat. (Even if it should break loose, it would only slam against the underside of the bench seat. But in any case it cannot break loose in my opinion, because the "loop" of velcro wrapped about the center-leg actually "floats" and would allow the ext to lift off the floor, strike the seatbottom, and then come to rest again on the carpet. The ext is restricted from fwd movement (because it's handle lies behind the vertical seat leg preventing fwd movement), and aft movement is neither likely, possible, nor dangerous. Meanwhile, the ext. is readily available to either front seat occupant without the need for them to bend forward (an unnatural activity, and one not likely to be pleasureable in the event of an instrument panel fire.)
The use of the ext. must be briefed however, as it requires "rolling" it towards the copilots sidewall before the velcro will release it. It is easiliy done with only one hand, but it must be actualy "rolled" in order to cause the velcro to release it. Simply pulling on the exgtinguisher will not dislodge it because the extinguisher's handle is behind the center seatleg and cannot be brought fwd until the ext is moved/rolled approx 4 inches to the right side of the airplane,.... And also because the velcro is simply too strong to simply overpower by pulling. (Unrolling the ext off the loop of velcro is simple however.)
If my description is too convoluted, and you think you'd like to consider the method, then PM me with your email address and I'll take a pic and make a sketch to assist you.
PS- The industial strength velcro I used came from the fabric/sewing notions section of WalMart. It comes in a box, hung from a peg and costs less than $7 for several feet of the stuff. It's about 2.5' wide by about 4' long. I made a "belt-loop" of the stuff one time about 6 inches long and then with a 3 or 4 inch square of it's partner, stuck a cordless phone to it. Who needs a belt-clip? I mow the yard wearing it, and although I can't hear it ring, it never falls off my belt!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
Mine's mounted horizontally, beneath the front of the pilot's seat. The bracket is such that you remove the extinquisher forward after popping the hold-down latch. It was originally mounted on the seat skirt, with the bracket bolted thru an aluminum doubler behind the skirt. When I removed the skirt, I built a bracket out of aluminum which mounts to the seat framework, the ext bracket bolts to that. I had to slightly adjust the location by a little trial-and-error so that it was removable with the pilot & seat both in flying postion.
Eric
Eric
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cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4063
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
cessna170bdriver wrote: ... and has never gotten loose in turbulence.
Miles
Yeah, but you're smoother than most of us, Miles.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4063
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
No one can be real smooth up in these mountains on some days!gahorn wrote: Yeah, but you're smoother than most of us, Miles.
I've hit turbulence hard enough that some of the spare hardware I keep in the (closed) ashtrays found it's way out, but the fire extinguisher stayed put. Just lucky I guess.Miles
Miles
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne