Weight and Balance

[flyingpumkin]

I have read numerous entries on this forum in which guys say their plane weight is approximately 1250 lbs.

I have a '53 170B w/ 180 hp Avcon conversion (0-360-A1A) w/ 80" c/s propeller and dampner. I have 26" tires w/ double puck brakes and p-ponk modification. It has a v-brace. I have completely removed the interior (i.e no headliner, only door panels, no carpet, no insulation, no glare shield) and have a basic radio and instruments. I have a lightweight starter and an odessy battery. I think I have a "bare bones" plane that I have tried to make light, but when weighed, it's empty weight is 1436 lbs.
I realize some of the things I have add weight, but 180 plus pounds? Am I missing something? Why am I so heavy? Any helpful comments would be appreciated.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I don't have anything that will help but for what it's worth mine comes in at 1358lbs empty, with stock motor, 180 gear, and the interior is about the same as yours. The 180 gear legs weigh more, the bigger tires weigh more, and I believe that CS prop is a good 30lbs heavier than the stock aluminum, it all adds up. I think Cessna got away with being very optimistic on their "official" empty weight, it probably had the smallest tires, lightest brakes, lightest/weakest landing gear, etc.

It's hearsay, but I've heard a PA11 owner managed to shave 70lbs off his plane just by going through it and replacing every overlength threaded fastener, clamp, etc.

[johneeb]

I have read numerous entries on this forum in which guys say their plane weight is approximately 1250 lbs.

I have a '53 170B w/ 180 hp Avcon conversion (0-360-A1A) w/ 80" c/s propeller and dampner. I have 26" tires w/ double puck brakes and p-ponk modification. It has a v-brace. I have completely removed the interior (i.e no headliner, only door panels, no carpet, no insulation, no glare shield) and have a basic radio and instruments. I have a lightweight starter and an odessy battery. I think I have a "bare bones" plane that I have tried to make light, but when weighed, it's empty weight is 1436 lbs.
I realize some of the things I have add weight, but 180 plus pounds? Am I missing something? Why am I so heavy? Any helpful comments would be appreciated.

Pumpkin,

I think there are some whoppers being told here about weights. Yours is not the heaviest out there as I know that my actual weight, determined by weighing, is north of yours by quite a bit.

Johneb

[buchanan]

PUMKIN

Please read my posts on “pilot lounge” under 180 horse conversion questions. As I said in my post on that forum I believe my calculated weight is close to my actual weight and I give my reasons. Be that as it may; WE are the PIC, and as long as we are not over-gross, technically, then it doesn’t really matter if the airplane was calculated or weighed; EXCEPT to US the guys flying the airplanes. Sure, for safe operations we need to know what the airplane weighs what we can safely carry. Just make the “paper-work” add up.

Buck

[N170BP]

My '54 B weighs 1393 with the (stock) back seat installed,
1361.4 with the back seat out.

This is with full paint, a decent interior, AN gyros, 850 tires w/double-puck
brakes & Clevelands, an 18 lb Sportsman STOL kit plus various other "fluff" stuff.

My next project is to install my (overhauled) electric turn & bank
instrument, and yard out all the old venturi driven vaccum gyro
stuff (lines, filter, regulator, gyros, venturis). I figger there's at
least 10-12 lbs worth of that crap sitting in the airplane right now
that will shortly go away.

BTW, the "cool" stuff adds weight quickly.... I know the 850s +
double-pucks probably cost 10-15 lbs... The fluff interior is probably
10+ pounds, etc. I think if you can get a B down to 1250 or 1300 lbs,
you're doing just about all you can to lighten the airplane.

I have access to a '53 180 that weighs about 175 lbs more (empty)
then my 170. It's a blast to fly, but you end up cutting yourself every
time you get in or out of it (no interior, no sound-proofing, no NOTHING!).

[buchanan]

flyingpumkin,

I’d sure appreciate a copy of the paperwork for your Odessey battery. You can pm me at glastar@3rivers.net.

Thanks, Buck

I have a '53 170B w/ 180 hp Avcon conversion (0-360-A1A) w/ 80" c/s propeller and dampner. I have 26" tires w/ double puck brakes and p-ponk modification. It has a v-brace. I have completely removed the interior (i.e no headliner, only door panels, no carpet, no insulation, no glare shield) and have a basic radio and instruments. I have a lightweight starter and an odessy battery. I think I have a "bare bones" plane that I have tried to make light, but when weighed, it's empty weight is 1436 lbs.
I realize some of the things I have add weight, but 180 plus pounds? Am I missing something? Why am I so heavy? Any helpful comments would be appreciated

[flyingpumkin]

Appreciate the replys.

I typically fly without the backseat, so thats some more off. I also think I'll be removing my vacuum system for electrical too. The plane performs great, but it sure would be nice to have an extra 180 pounds of useful load. Sounds like I got what I got; not any "big" items, but it all adds up.

Thanks again.

[zero.one.victor]

My ragwing weighs 1332 (weighed it myself!) with bench rear seat, 1300 without it, and 1310 with single rear jump seat . Full paint job, nav-com/txp/intercom, simple but full interior,180 legs,double-pucks,800's.
I removed the venturi's gyro's etc a coupe years ago, they weighed 8 pounds.
A lot of guys with fairly well-equipped & plush 170's claim weights in the 1250-1300 range. No offense, but I don't believe it. Kelly's B model was pretty much stripped out and weighed around 1250 before paint (bare metal).
The airplane weights people are 'fessing up to here are real-world figures, not calculated or wishful thinking.

Eric

[steve grewing]

My '48 weighed 1386 lbs with no fluids except hydraulic once I got it totally assembled two months ago. Calculated BEW is 1425 lbs. It was weighed with calibrated digital scales. STC's incorporated are: P. Ponk gear mod, Whelen Strobes, FM oil filter, Cleveland wheels/brakes and metalized wing. It has fourth fuel tank (took 17 months to get that one through the FSDO/ACO. No idea when it was actually installed.), Scott tail wheel, four place intercom, ELT with remote switch, inertia reel shoulder harnesses in front, single cylinder EGT/CHT, Y370 insulation fwd of sta. 90 and xpdr w/ mode C. I primed/painted every exposed internal/external surface while I had it apart. It has no vacuum system and three electric motors - T&B, Ldg light and Hobbs.
First logbook entry addressing weight is in 1958 post-metalized wing, BEW of 1336 lbs. It's no longer a true four place plane and I am no longer a standard weight occupant. So, I guess it is what it is.

Hope to put it in the air next month for the first time since 1980. Dealing with that same ole' FSDO challenge.

Steve

[Dave Clark]

PUMKIN

Please read my posts on “pilot lounge” under 180 horse conversion questions. As I said in my post on that forum I believe my calculated weight is close to my actual weight and I give my reasons. Be that as it may; WE are the PIC, and as long as we are not over-gross, technically, then it doesn’t really matter if the airplane was calculated or weighed; EXCEPT to US the guys flying the airplanes. Sure, for safe operations we need to know what the airplane weighs what we can safely carry. Just make the “paper-work” add up.

Buck

DITTO
I have no desire to loose legal useful load by weighing my airplane. But then with the 180 Lyc it really should have a couple hundred more lbs. approved anyway. (Not that I ever fly over gross ) With the Continental 145/O-300 I would probably want to know what the actual weight is.

[R COLLINS]

My '51 model 170A weighed 1229# when it left the factory. The calculated weight today is 1255#. It is IFR equipped and has strobes, heated pitot, seven antennas, remote magnetic compass, wheel pants, scott tailwheel, and paint. Since I routinely fly with all the seats full I would be afraid to have it weighed. Randal

[GAHorn]

Mine was weighed at 1355 after restoration, but will all my junk I keep in it, etc., I'd be surprised if it's EW wasn't more like 1450.

[Harold Holiman]

Just for point of interest, my 1953 180 weighs 1684.9 lbs. It basicly has; two nav coms, ADF, panel GPS, auxilary fuel tank, and 8:00 tires. Like George, I also generally carry a lot of "junk" and I am definitely not a FRA standard weight person.

Harold
N92CP

[N170CT]

Well, I have a 56 170B and insisted on having the airplane weighed when I bought it as it did not have any W&B data on board. Vacuum system, one KX170B, one Bendix T12 ADF, and xponder stock airplane with full interior/full paint, 800 tires: she weighed in at 1394 pounds which I felt was a bit heavy. Since then, I have made a conscious effort to reduce the weight by removing the ADF and antenna, and by going to much smaller tires (don't ask size) for both drag and weight. Also washed/cleaned out what appeared to be about 50 years accumulation of dust, dirt and hydraulic fluid from under the cabin floor and in the area aft of the baggage compartment. I, too, make a habit of using new fasteners when re-installing equipment and use the shortest/smallest allowable. Plan to install a new Odssey (sp??) battery next time I go to Aircraft Spruce. There are many ways to reduce the weight of an aircraft, but most simply require a little attention to detail.

[c170b53]

You only have to look at "Scotty" from the beginning of Star Trek to the final movie series to understand why Capt Kirk was always asking Scotty for "More Power". I need to lose 25 pounds from my frame. I don't think I can reduce that amount of weight by changing the hardware in my plane.