Wheel landings with Horton STOL kit?

[AR Dave]

I'll email everyone about what to bring in the next few days. I was going to have John bring the milk, but I've decided to change that now! We'll skip a step and get him to bring the butter!

I'd like to hear thoughts about SPOT LANDING with a slow flying B. Specifically about how to get the slowest possible descent rate at the slowest possible speed.
I think the less dense air lets me sink faster in Ark. When I landed in front of the shower house, at Petit Jean last week, I used up most of the parking lot.

[N1478D]

Energy Management! Keep a LITTLE energy for the flare, either a little altitude or speed or power. Use that energy for whatever type of landing that you are doing to arrest your decsent and roll the tires on to the runway. It's the way the birds do it, they swoop down and then up just before they land very softly.

[jrenwick]

I'll email everyone about what to bring in the next few days. I was going to have John bring the milk, but I've decided to change that now! We'll skip a step and get him to bring the butter!

How about a contest to see who can do the most landings in a single approach, keeping it inside the parking lot? I'm a contender....

John

[N1277D]

Tire pressure is another thing to check for good smooth wheel landings; a tire pressure of about 20 to 25 psi is ideal. If you got them up to 30 psi then it a handfull on pavement.

[AR Dave]

Been watching the ravens land for two days now. Good illustration!

[jrenwick]

OK, I went out and practiced landings this afternoon, a fairly gusty, crosswindy day. I think I've figured it out.

My theory is that because the STOL wing still wants to fly at lower speeds than the stock wing, the airplane is more sensitive to pitch changes during landing. When I set it up on final in more or less the wheel-landing attitude and use a little power to control the descent rate and take care to minimize the pitch changes just before touchdown, I can get a very nice, controlled wheel landing. If I get a gust and overreact to it, the airplane will balloon, bounce, porpoise, etc., and my friends, who like to sit outside their hangars and watch the action, get very amused at my expense!

My friend with a stock '53 170B was out there practicing landings at the same time, because after flying mine he wasn't sure he could fly one any more. He was making very nice landings, both 3-point and wheel. He feels better now, but he says I can keep my 170 -- he doesn't want it any more.

Thanks for all the good advice, guys!

John

[rudymantel]

Re tire pressure, if I had to keep it as low as 20-25 psi I'd never be able to push it out of the hangar...
Rudy

[Dave Clark]

Re tire pressure, if I had to keep it as low as 20-25 psi I'd never be able to push it out of the hangar...
Rudy

Gee no kidding, I'm not getting older, I'm just getting weaker I keep about 30lbs in mine and get reminded when they're down a few pounds because it's hard to push. It also doesn't help that my hangar floor is uphill pushing it out. My 195 was actually easier, I used a lawn tractor and a towbar

[N1277D]

See the 170A owners manual. It recommends 24 psi to achieve best efficiency of the spring steel gear and prolong tire life. Go try a few wheel landings at 32 and 24 psi, it makes a huge amount of difference.

[voorheesh]

I fly a 170A with Horton Stol kit and make wheel landings as a routine. I use no power and try a slight flare with immediate fwd movement of yoke. I prefer slightly tail low. If you are patient you can avoid the bounce. If you get a bounce try turning it into a 3 point. look at the trees (horizon) and dont be in a hurry. Flaps on the 170A dont make any diference/the ship lands the same with or without. The 170B might wheel land better with partial flaps. Anyway, happy landings!

[jrenwick]

I fly a 170A with Horton Stol kit and make wheel landings as a routine....

Thanks! What is your airspeed on short final, normally?

John

[GAHorn]

I fly a 170A with Horton Stol kit and make wheel landings as a routine. ... I prefer slightly tail low. ...

Just like the Owner's manual suggests. Some things do not change.

[blueldr]

I don't really see any difference in a wheel landing in a C-170 and landing any other airplane. With a nose wheel you normally touch down on the mains and then lower the nose by relaxing the stick pressure. It seems to me that a wheel landind in a C-170 is done precisely the same way.As a matter of fact, landing a bicycle gear, as on the B-47, was just about the same way. I can't really tell any difference between the cuffed and stock wings in the procedure used.

[voorheesh]

Approach speed about 70mph/65 over the fence. I'm CFI and the biggest problem I see with guys trying wheel landings is that they go back and forth with yoke when they try and flare. Its like they are trying to feel for the ground. You have to remember in a tail dragger that when the mains contact terra firma, the ground stops them but the cg is behind and will want to keep going down. If unchecked or control inputs out of sequence, this will increase angle of attack and the ship will fly again. Thats what makes them bounce. When they come down 2nd or 3rd time it just gets worse. My m.o. is to fly attitude and be ready to go-around or plan b if problems happen. (I have to confess I'm not an expert and can screw up a landing just like anyone else)
I gave a flight review to a long time 170 member who has a 170B last week (old enough to be my dad/started flying before I was born) and the thing I noticed about him was you could not detect his control imputs on takeoffs and landings/ he was totally relaxed and smooth. He didnt like wheel landings and showed me some very good 3 point landings even in a 7 or 8 knot xwind. So who knows?
Anyway I hope you do well on your flights and my advice is to keep practicing, get instruction whenever you can, and enjoy the heck out of these great old airplanes!