Door fit

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Both of my doors stick out from the fuselage in the center around the upper door hinge. The pilots side is the worst sticking out about a quarter inch the passenger side about half that. The top and bottom of the doors are flush with the fuselage. The upper hinge on the worst door is not flat yet there is no dents or creases in it. Closer fitting door is lightly straighter. In addition to the hinges the doors them selves seemed to be bowed in the middle front.

I would care except the misalignment of the leading edge of the doors acts like an air scope which gets pretty cold in the winter. I'v just replaced the weather stripe with a P channel similar to the Brown 9088 that is recommended. Even though I cheated the weather stripe more towards the center of the door frame rather than in the corner where it would normally be found it will not seal against the outside door frame.

I haven't made a study of 170 door hinges. Are they flat? There is no adjustment to adjust the door in other than bending the door and hinge. Has anyone done this?

I'm thinking of removing the doors and very carefully tweaking (bending) the door and the hinges with a press to correct the problem.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

As a follow up I was able to tweak the door hinge and message the door frame itself and have made the door fit closer in the front.

Before removing the door I looked it over pretty carefully and took some measurements. On thing I forgot is the rear bottom of the door sticks out a quarter of an inch leaving a gap you can see through the top of the door from the latch up around the top and now the front of the door fits flush or just out a little.

I did try to flex the door so the this corner would fit but that didn't work as the door skin would just wrinkle.

Anyone else had a door that fit this bad and what did you do about it if anything?

[Roesbery]

You need a bigger hammer. Actually with a little thought and care and protection of the paint you can do a lot with a hammer.

[GAHorn]

These doors are pretty lightweight and structurally thin. It's not uncommon for leading edges to protrude 1/8" or so, and trailing edges frequently protrude as much as 1/4" even on new Cessna's. Go to the local dealer and look at the new ones on the showroom floor. You may be surprised what passes for factory fit and finish on doors.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Yea George I could except that except that there is a quarter inch gap that is not sealed because the seal of course is a quarter inch away. It starts the front bottom of the door and gets worse to the back corner and better again as you get to the door handle.

If I can't figure out how to improve the door fit I'll have to remove the P molding I just glued near the corner of the door frame and the outer skin and reglue it nearly half way in on the door frame to get it to seal.

Speaking of door seals my friend has an old A model door which still has the V shaped seal. This seal is attached to the door on the inside of the door on the back side of the door skin not the inner frame. Did I put my new P seal on correctly by gluing it to the inside door frame with the round part in or near the corner of the inner frame and the outer door skin

[GAHorn]

Didn't you mention that you used some sort of household P seal? Perhaps you should try a different seal. Try that Piper door seal or the brownaircraft.com T-9088 I recommended previously.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The P seal I used is aircraft seal bought by the Army for the Queen Airs they used to have. They threw it out several years ago and I happened to empty their trash cans. It's been in my "Good Stuff I Might Need Someday" pile ever since:D

I also just saw the same seal on a Bell JetRanger 206 I was flying today.

The seal is made of white silicone and the same dimensions as the Piper seal you recommend which is why I used it.

[GAHorn]

Hmmmmn. You don't suppose your doors are "sprung"?
Second answer: No wonder! Using helicopter parts on a real airplane!
Third choice: I'm wondering if you have 170-C model doors on that thing?
Seriously, I hope to look at it at Petit Jean. Maybe we can figure sumpin' out.

[mvivion]

Sounds to me like the doors have been sprung at some point. My pilot side door got jostled open in big wind last year, and sprung against the strut. The Door Steward (don't buy one, please) simply broke, and allowed the door to contact the strut.

Fortunately, there were no creases or big uglys in the door or the strut, but we could only bend the door back just so much without major damage.

I put some stick on (thick) weatherstrip in the appropriate region of the door, where the wind was coming from.

This is a band aid approach, but it worked for me. A better approach would be to buy a new door, paint it to match, etc. A little weather strip is cheaper.

I'm betting your doors have popped open at some point in a tailwind, and hit the struts, springing them.

Good luck.

Mike V

[1311D]

I have an A model that stuck out in front. I replaced the hinges with late model cast aluminum ones from a 180 and shimmed underneath the half on the door. Looks better and works better too.
I was about to buy a Door Steward, but sounds like i might reconsider. Anybody have any experence with them except bad? Or a different type of door stop.

[HA]

I remember an article in Light Plane Maintenance where they guy demonstrated how to work a door back to shape by careful bending and in worst case scenarios, drilling out the spot welds in the door skin (outer skin is spotted to the inner structure), moving things around for best fit, and riveting it all back together. Looked kinda spooky to me, gonna end up with some nice figure-8 holes that way .

but if the thing is sproinged beyond all hope, then maybe it's an option.

[170C]

Geeze George are you referring to my doors? Seriously, my 56 172 TD (ala 170C) had really good fitting doors. I couldn't live with the lack of an opening window on the right side (Cessna should have been castrated for that move IMHO) so John D got me a couple of 60ish 172 doors which I had my AI install. (Got expensive). The right door fits really well, but pilots door has a gap like Bruce is talking about down at the bottom, front corner. I have thought about putting some extra weatherstripping from just above the corner to just past it on the bottom to close it up (you can see daylight easily there), but it hasn't been that much of a problem so the "one of these days" projects is still waiting. Someone told me once (may have been just his opinion) that Cessna doors had to be hand fitted for each plane. Maybe that was true at one time, but I would think by the time the 170 B model, if not before, were in production that good jigs would have make this unnecessary.

[GAHorn]

Ha, Frank! No, actually I was gently teasing the owner of a C-170A/B . Maybe he actually has a ragwing door. (I've decided Bruce is probably the most knowlegeable/capable of any of us. He's got the most experience in all models!)

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George I have been thinking the same thing about the doors coming from a '48 same as my engine .


Here is the gap I've been trying to deal with. If you look close at the bottom corner you can see right inside the plane.

I've now "adjusted' the upper hinge by bending it straight. It did have 2 very small kinks in it. The gap at the front of the door had been better with just one kink removed but the bottom of the door was bad. With both removed the bottom is improved but the front isn't as good.

I just closely looked at both of the doors and the seals I just installed and the seals aren't sealing around more than half the door



Here is the seal and how I installed it. Did I install it right? I'm thinking it would be better with the leg of the P glued to the rivets on the door skin edge with the Round part away from the corner. Installed this way the round part would be squeezed between the door skin and the fuselage door frame like the original V shaped seal was. If this seal is sinsatlled correctly, I'll need a P seal with the round part as thick as my pinky finger to seal the gap in front of my passenger door.

BTW as I mentioned before this seal is made of silicone and 3M 1300L and a lot of other glues won't stick to it. I ended up using 100% silicone (like you calk with) as a glue.

I'm about out of ideas other than reskinning the door after the frame has been formed to fit but that is WAY to much work.

[zero.one.victor]

Hey, watch the cracks about ragwing doors! Mine fit just fine. In fact,they even close nice-- pull gently til the striker touches, then just "click" it the last half-inch. No "Cessna Slam" required.
One of my doors' pedigree is questionable- it has a hole for the ragwing's strut-mounted catch at the bottom of the door, and another hole at the top of the door for the A&B's wing-mounted catch. Doesn't seem to affect the fit.........

Eric