Hand Held GPS's

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:48 pm

Where comes the information about tower guy-lines never crossing paved roads, George?

Eric

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:07 pm

No official source. It's just an observation given me by an old-timer that I learned back in my pipeline patrol days, and I've always noticed it to be true. (paved roads only)

dacker · Post by **dacker** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:54 pm

I have heard that little tidbit as well. I just wish that I could remember where I saw that rule broken. It might have been West Virginia, but I distinctly remember a tower next to a well travelled road with guy wires coming down on the other side.
The other rule is to not fly lower than the hill tops when flying between two hills.
David

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:33 pm

On the Sabine River, just south of Beaumont, TX (this is back in 1972) I was flying pipeline on a route not one of my regular routes. The boss was out sick and Gulf Oil needed the line flown on an emergency basis due to a pressure loss. I'd only flown the hard to follow line one other time, with the boss...just for this purpose...in case he was unavailable so I could be a backup. It had been about a year earlier last and only time I'd seen it. I was looking down outside my left window flying along about 200' AGL when I noticed a group of trucks and workmen working on some object on the right of way.
Suddenly, in the back of my mind I remembered the 500' tower and guy-wires in my immediate position...and reactively/impulsively I jerked the airplane up into a violent climbing right turn to avoid the guy-wires....knowing I was too late....just reacting out of sudden fear and self-preservation. I'd completely forgotten the tower the boss had mentioned the year before that I should look out for in this area.

I missed it. In fact, ...it was no longer there. If it had been, I'd have been killed in the wires.
The workmen on the ground....were disassembling the lowered tower in question.

Whew!
I later was told by the Gulf dispatcher the tower had been condemned by the county because it's guy-wires crossed the county road. The tower was being relocated.

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:01 pm

Those guy wires will kill you, but I've hit a number of plain 'ol 'lectric wires when ag flying in GA. Come home trailing wires from the wings of my Ag Cat. (They call them "WAR'S" in GA and GA Power Co. is geared up to repair them during the crop dusting season)
Ahh, those were the days !
Rudy

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:52 pm

In my line of business flying helicopters scud a running is a part of our business. I can legally fly MedEvac at 500-1 during the day. If I was doing a 135 charter for another company I work for i can legally fly in 300-1/2

Notice I said legally not necessarily smart. Even so we find ourselves in low weather on a pretty regular bases.

My rule of thumb. They don't build towers including cell towers ON a road.

I've never seen a guy wire cross a road but I wouldn't bet on it. In the north east we don't have many really tall towers like elsewhere and those we have we know about.

A few mental thoughts come to me as I fly down a road at 150 ft agl with little more than a mile visiblitily in rain and I pass a tower out my door. I think good there is that tower right where I thought it was. Now I definitly know where I am. WHAT IN THE HECK AM I DOING HERE.

As for flying down a valley lower than the terrain on either side I will never do it. In the north east there is NO SUCH THING as a valley or river with NO wires crossing it.

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Good thinking, Bruce. I once lost a good friend (whom I taught to fly) who hit wires that were crossing a mountain pass in Jamaica.
Rudy

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:56 pm

And, another thought that passes thru one's mind when flying IFR ( I Follow Roads ), " . . . wonder if there are any other idiots doing this and if they are going the opposite direction?"

So far, have never met someone when the visibility has dropped and it would be hard to see them as they are following the same road that I am.

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:48 pm

Flying river-bottoms like some of us are wont to do can definitely have some surprises crossing them too.

Be careful out there.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:49 pm

Travelling "IFR", you definitely see some opposite-direction traffic, especially major roads that actually connect somewhere to somewhere else. The I-5 corridor in western Washington comes to mind, as well as I-90 crossing the Cascades. Following these (especially in scuddy wx), it pays to keep your eyes open & looking out the windows.
A young man I know was flying his 170B north near Olympia WA & was mid-air'd from behind by another airplane. This was not actually over highway but I believe was in a narrow corridor between Olympia's Class D & some militairy airspace (R-6703 & Ranier MOA). These narrow airspace corridors can funnel traffic,just like a mountain pass.
Another thing to consider in logging country like western Washington, even if (you think) you know where all the cellphone/powerline/radio towers are, I've seen loggers string cables from one ridge to another for a "high-lead show" (yarding tower operation). This could be anywhere there are trees, from right near town to way out in the backwoods/mountains. These can be put in place virtually overnight--no lights, red balls, or NOTAMs either, so beware when flying river bottoms,draws, & valleys. Flying low thru these places can be a thrill, very tempting, but hitting a logging cable is a little too thrilling for my tastes.

Eric

lowNslow · Post by **lowNslow** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:22 pm

N1478D wrote:And, another thought that passes thru one's mind when flying IFR ( I Follow Roads ), " . . . wonder if there are any other idiots doing this and if they are going the opposite direction?" So far, have never met someone when the visibility has dropped and it would be hard to see them as they are following the same road that I am.

Just stay in your own lane and there shouldn't be any problems.

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:06 pm

How did we get here from hand-held GPS's ?
Rudy

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:17 pm

Rudy, here goes . . .

Frank was looking at a nice large screen hand held GPS at Midway Saturday. The battery power was not good enough to unhook it from shore power on the gull wing Stinson so the Stinson owner had the cable run out the door and the GPS was kind of hanging there so we could see it. At that point, it probably sort of appeared as the one Ol Gar kicked out of his plane possibly over a road on his way to Petit Jean last year . . .

Don't those kind of things happen down in Florida?

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:33 pm

Well Rudy when I'm following my road I'll do it in lower weather if I have my favorite GPS working in front of me. Currently my favorate is a Garmin Pilot GPSIII which I bought used. Had a Garmin GPS 90 and 95XL previously. One rule of thumb I've learned is when you really need your GPS the battery low indicator will come on.

For me there are 4 things of equal importance in a GPS
1 I've got to be able to see it. In that regard with my ageing eyes I'm considering moving up to a larger screen than my Pilot GPS III
2. I can't read it if my battery is dead. 14 hours isn't even long enough but it's about the longest out there.
3. I must be able to mount the GPS in my field of vision with my head up looking out the windshield. When your as low as I have been with little visibility you can't afford to be looking in the cockpit much.
4. I must be able to enter a Lat/Lon for a waypoint and fly to it easily because that is what we do. This last one doesn't come into play with most pilots.
After these 4 but nearly as important I want to be able to easily download, edit and upload waypoints. We have about 50 hospitals as waypoints we maintain. The worst thing about panel mounted units is you can't do this. Can't tell you how many hours of finger numbing time I've spent loading waypoints.

I've been considering a 195 or 196 but they are pretty bulky weight and size wise. What I'd really like is a Palm or PocketPC solution but friends that have had these had trouble with them. I'm really interested in the Garmin Palm solution though which is just coming on the market.

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:27 pm

Bruce, the Garmin 195 is what I used to get to Wilmington, and is the unit which convinced me that GPS was in my future. But I hated the fact that in order to use the keyboard your hand blocked the view of the screen. Having the keybd on top of the screen seemed really illogical to me. Apparently Garmin also eventually came to the same conclusion, so the next model UP was the 196 which placed the keyboard out of the way (for right handed users.) Lefties must hate it (and most other units out there as well.)