landing with frozen brakes
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
landing with frozen brakes
My ole 170 gave me a quick lesson a while ago about landing with my brakes frozen. I learned to limit my use of the brakes and stay out of the deep snow and slush. If in doubt don't take off. Comments?
Bill's '53 170 B
I landed a KingAir 200 in Lincoln, NE once and spent the night after a long icy flight to a Big 12 game. I was one of four KA's that made the trip transporting UT basketball team to the games. Next day the line crew asked if I wanted the airplane de-iced. It was sunny and nothing on the plane, all the rwys were plowed, I didn't see any reason to, so I said No thanks.
Loaded everone up, tried to taxi, and it seemed like we'd forgotten to remove the chocks ,....or the parking brake was set or something. Only problem was,...I don't use parking brakes.
Added more power.....nothing. Added LOTS of power (still thinking how embarrassing it was going to be to have to get out in front of all these pax and the 3 other KingAir's in accompaniment, .... and move forgotten chocks....(did I stop at that stop sign on the way home?....) Then all of a sudden....BANG!... and she started rolling. The brakes were frozen with ice from melted snow which had re-frozen from taxying in two days previous. It wasn't noticeable during pre-flight wheel inspection.
Another lesson learned: De-ice the brakes if you last taxied in thru snow. Hot brakes melt the snow, and then it re-freezes sticking the discs to the calipers. In that case, no damage done....but I guess it could have destroyed the pads/linings and/or the calibpers or maybe even cracked a wheel!
Loaded everone up, tried to taxi, and it seemed like we'd forgotten to remove the chocks ,....or the parking brake was set or something. Only problem was,...I don't use parking brakes.
Added more power.....nothing. Added LOTS of power (still thinking how embarrassing it was going to be to have to get out in front of all these pax and the 3 other KingAir's in accompaniment, .... and move forgotten chocks....(did I stop at that stop sign on the way home?....) Then all of a sudden....BANG!... and she started rolling. The brakes were frozen with ice from melted snow which had re-frozen from taxying in two days previous. It wasn't noticeable during pre-flight wheel inspection.
Another lesson learned: De-ice the brakes if you last taxied in thru snow. Hot brakes melt the snow, and then it re-freezes sticking the discs to the calipers. In that case, no damage done....but I guess it could have destroyed the pads/linings and/or the calibpers or maybe even cracked a wheel!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Hey George,
I've been pondering a question concerning landing with your brakes locked,and thought you might know the answer. This came to mind since one of our pilots tried it with a 185. Doing it causes immediate confusion to most consientious taildrager pilots. What I'm wondering about is this. As you are flying upside down, backwards down the runway what should be your control surface deflections be?
Brian
I've been pondering a question concerning landing with your brakes locked,and thought you might know the answer. This came to mind since one of our pilots tried it with a 185. Doing it causes immediate confusion to most consientious taildrager pilots. What I'm wondering about is this. As you are flying upside down, backwards down the runway what should be your control surface deflections be?
Brian52 170B s/n 20446
56 172 s/n 28162
Echo Weed eater, Jezebeel
56 172 s/n 28162
Echo Weed eater, Jezebeel
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Tom Downey
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 4:50 am
[quote="Indopilot"]Hey George,
I've been pondering a question concerning landing with your brakes locked,and thought you might know the answer.
I did land my 54 at 76S with both parking brakes set, full flap, full stall and it did not go over.
I had devine help, or got really lucky, your choice.
I've been pondering a question concerning landing with your brakes locked,and thought you might know the answer.
I did land my 54 at 76S with both parking brakes set, full flap, full stall and it did not go over.
I had devine help, or got really lucky, your choice.
Tom Downey A&P-IA
Fly these airplanes much on retractable wheel skis, and you WILL land them with the brakes frozen.
My first experience with that was landing on a partially ice covered paved surface, landing, looking out at the tire on my side and realizing it wasn't turning. Sliding on the ice at 40 knts. Then I hit the bare pavement.
Just a loud bang, a bit of a jerk, and they were turning. This was a 185.
I certainly don't advocate this at all. At least on wheel skis, the rear limit cables should help to keep you from going over.
In any case, when I'm on wheel skis, and I've been in ANY snow, I always 3 point the airplane. Otherwise I normally wheel land, so it takes a concious thought process.
As noted, if you taxi through loose snow or slush, then go fly in sub freezing temps, the brakes will freeze.
I've never had one really pull me up short, though, generally just a loud bang, and a bit of a lurch as they break loose.
Can't be good on hardware, though,
Mike Vivion
My first experience with that was landing on a partially ice covered paved surface, landing, looking out at the tire on my side and realizing it wasn't turning. Sliding on the ice at 40 knts. Then I hit the bare pavement.
Just a loud bang, a bit of a jerk, and they were turning. This was a 185.
I certainly don't advocate this at all. At least on wheel skis, the rear limit cables should help to keep you from going over.
In any case, when I'm on wheel skis, and I've been in ANY snow, I always 3 point the airplane. Otherwise I normally wheel land, so it takes a concious thought process.
As noted, if you taxi through loose snow or slush, then go fly in sub freezing temps, the brakes will freeze.
I've never had one really pull me up short, though, generally just a loud bang, and a bit of a lurch as they break loose.
Can't be good on hardware, though,
Mike Vivion
frozen brakes
I've been asking for advice and one fellow said if I suspect the brakes are frozen try bouncing or touching at maybe 70 or so, if they are siezed on the rebound the bird will still fly without nosing over. Lucky for me it stayed straight but the tail did lift before the bang.
Bill's '53 170 B