Venturi Vacuum System

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Jeff I don't know if you indicated whether you are a TIC170A member or not. You need to be in order to have the avator show up. You may also need to be for the emoticons to work I don't know. If you are a TIC170A member you need to indicate that buy entering your number in your profile. I just checked the list and your not included at this time which is why the avator isn't working for you.

BTW the emoticons work by double clicking on them

[Jeff Palmer]

OK, tomorrow I will be ready. (Too busy at work after the holiday.) I have the vacuum pump connected to the line going to the left venturi. I have taped off where the filter goes on the DG. The right venturi line is sealed. I have a rotometer gauge connected to the filter hole on the AH. I will pull 4.5" hg with the vacuum pump and see what the flow is through the AH. Book says I need 1.2 cu. ft / min. Then I'll check the DG. The vacuum gauge is connected to the AH. If I am getting the proper flow and vacuum, there is no reason it shouldn't work.

[Jeff Palmer]

Double clicking?! Oh, jeepers. I was trying to drag them. I also sent my avatar to a web sight. It lets you load from your hard drive, but I guess you need to have it posted some place. Let's see what happens now.

[GAHorn]

Shouldn't have to double-click. Single click should work.

[Jeff Palmer]

OK, gahorn, who invited you any way? HA! OK, here goes. I put my membership in so let's give it a try. Now, that took a single click. Let's see if my picture is on the left....

[GAHorn]

OK, gahorn, who invited you any way? HA! OK, here goes. I put my membership in so let's give it a try. Now, that took a single click. Let's see if my picture is on the left....

Well, I hesitated posting that info in the public area...I started to just send you a PM. (Hated to let Bruce know we deliberately make him work twice as hard for his membership benefits.)

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Well, I hesitated posting that info in the public area...I started to just send you a PM. (Hated to let Bruce know we deliberately make him work twice as hard for his membership benefits.)

George I saw that

Besides being one of those fearless helicopter pilots I'm also a Mac computer person. We double click everything and we don't get viruses.

[GAHorn]

Being stuck with a Mac IS a virus.
Love of helicopters is a sickness.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Being stuck with a Mac IS a virus.
Love of helicopters is a sickness.

You are so perceptive George. I must completely agree with your last statement. Only thing though I'm not stuck with the Mac it's my choice. My choice IS the virus of which you perceive .

[Jeff Palmer]

OK Folks, here’s what I have got. I isolated my AH from the rest of the system, since it performs the worst. I attached a rotometer to the port where the filter goes. I applied 4 ½” of vacuum and was only getting .8 SCFM if flow through it. So I increased the vacuum to 5.5 and still only got .8 SCFM. My mechanic came by and said I had a leak in the instrument. But it’s brand new! Guess what, it leaks. That is probably the same problem I had with the first one they sent me that I returned for this one. I wanted to exchange it for a different brand and they wouldn’t do that. It cost me $35.00 for shipping to exchange it. Now they want $70.00 for another exchange. That would also cost me another $35.00 to ship this one back too. I have already got too much money into this project. So I voided the warranty and removed the tape around it. Dousing it into water and blowing on the fitting revealed that the glue they used to put it together was so poorly put on that it has these huge leaks all the way around. You can see where they totally missed with the glue. That’s right, no seals, no screws. Glue. So what will I do? Put more glue. If that doesn’t work, I’ll have to buy another one from someone else. The DG doesn’t leak. So, where did I get these Attitude Gyros? Chief Aircraft. Model number GH02V-3. Distributed by Wultrad, Inc. 950 Rand Rd. #119 Wauconda, IL 60084. Phone 847-487-9960. Do not buy one of these instruments! I do not see this one in their new catalog. Perhaps they figured out it's a piece of junk.

[GAHorn]

Was it a certified shop that had repaired it? Or was it a new, TSO'd unit? It's a shame you opened/tampered with it. I believe you'd have had better luck to advise them you intend to submit it and your written complaint to their FAA region. (A certified repair station would rather make you happy than submit to another inspection or undergo a revocation of their certificate.)
And I'd imagine that Chief would rather refund or otherwise please you rather than risk your telling the world about their sorry product. (But since you've already done that, I'm not certain how much influence you now would have on them.)
Sorry this happened to you. You might still try to get them to do the right thing. Good luck.

[Jeff Palmer]

Both horizons were new. The first one’s moving display shook like something was out of balance. Even on the bench. So that wasn’t vibration from the engine. That was why I sent it back. Perhaps the air leaks were blowing on it inside. The reason I am going ahead and fixing it myself is I will have it ready tomorrow and there won’t be any shipping charges. I do that with a lot of stuff. Bring it home, it’s broken or made wrong, I fix it. Drives my wife crazy. I have replaced the glue and have checked for leaks. I also found a sticker, along the top edge, that was covering a slot, that said to be sure to use a filter. HA - HA! The sticker was all gooey and coming loose. The slot was leaking a lot of air also. The slot was for mounting the arrow in the top center of the display. They didn’t even try to seal that. Just put a sticker over it. Unbelievable. The problems seem to be all in, who ever assembled it. Everything inside seems to be OK. We’ll see.

[GAHorn]

After some research, I found the GHO2V-3 you bought is a NON-TSO'd unit marketed by "Falcon" and is likely a foreign-made, less expensive import. This probably explains it's quality problem. While it may/may not give you reliable service, I'd be wary of using it as a genuine IFR Gyro. (The more obvious external case-problems may not be the most serious quality issue. The less visible internals may be even more of an issue.)

[Jeff Palmer]

I would have to put a lot more into this airplane to make it suitable for IFR. I just use the horizon for my BFRs. I really don't have any other uses for it. I will use the turn coordinator about once every couple years too. The DG is basically something to fill the hole. That’s about it. I tried to exchange the first AH I bought for a better one and pay the extra money. But they wouldn’t do that. No refunds on instruments. All I could do is exchange it, for a replacement, with the original supplier. As it turns out, I already have more into this project than a good one would have cost. I ran into a similar problem with my fuel gauges. I basically wound up paying $100.00 for two corks. OK, tomorrow everything goes back in place. I have a mercury monometer to calibrate my vacuum gauge. My mechanic will be there, again, and hopefully we’ll get it fixed. More money, OH WELL! That’s aviation, we love it, so we pay it off the top! I'll take Larry to lunch. He'll go easy on me.

[Jeff Palmer]

OK, Here’s today’s results. I used Larry’s vacuum pump and the AH on the bench. I connected the mercury monometer where you connect the vacuum gauge. I connected the rotometer between the AH and filter. Turn on the switch. We saw that the vacuum gauge, on Larry’s pump, is off by almost 1 whole inch reading too high. So we went by the monometer. I drew up 4 ½ “ and still only got .8 SCFM of flow. So, momentarily we cranked it up to 6”. But we never got more than .8 SCFM. The spec sheet said it consumes from 1 to 1.4 SCFM. So there could still be a problem with not enough air being directed to the gyro. (This stuff is supposed to be air worthy, folks.) We spun and twisted the instrument all around and it seemed to respond nicely. Perhaps the air leaks blowing onto stuff inside didn’t allow it to work properly. I have bench tested these with the housing removed, (use pressure rather than vacuum), and the slightest breeze will send them off. So, everything is back inside the airplane. All I need now is some sky! By the way, I have no reason to believe that my vacuum gauge, in the airplane, is not original equipment. It tested perfectly accurate with the mercury. Amassing. Something that works. Nothing like old stuff!