Insight on panel

[AWilson]

AWilson, … one thing you might wish to do as you restore you yokes/control-wheels…. I pulled the yokes out of our Skyhawk and took them to a local automotive powder-coater who bead-blasted the old flaking plastic off of them…. and powder-coated them gloss-black. They look new. (No need to remove the wheels from the shaft…he protected them from the blasting with HD aluminum foil.

If you want to pay for those $100+ rivets you certainly can…and you’ll probably want to make that change before powder-coating….but stainless machine screws have been used also.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... kkey=16147

Good tip thanks. I’ll probably do that. Your saying do the rivets first. I assume that means they should be painted, right?

[AWilson]

The dials on the instruments are yellow, or dirty white. I sure hope thats not original color. Were they white? Assuming so, wheres a good shop to get them rebuilt or at least the dials refreshed?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Bruce, as a former C-170A owner, has forgotten more than most of us will ever known about this model. For example, in this conversation about the glareshield color he wrote,

Gary, I retract my "painted black" statement. I'd really on what I said when I was younger and had more brain cells firing.

........ One original instrument that is required by the TCDS is the stall warning. It was originally in the left subpanel.

Gary, I only wish more of my brain cells where as stubborn as those holding the memory glare shields are black.

Remember we are talking about an A model here and the stall warning system is not required by TCDS for any 170 other than the B model like yours Gary. I'd bet most A models don't have a stall warning system though I have seen them on some including mine.

[AWilson]

Bruce, as a former C-170A owner, has forgotten more than most of us will ever known about this model. For example, in this conversation about the glareshield color he wrote,

Gary, I retract my "painted black" statement. I'd really on what I said when I was younger and had more brain cells firing.

........ One original instrument that is required by the TCDS is the stall warning. It was originally in the left subpanel.

Gary, I only wish more of my brain cells where as stubborn as those holding the memory glare shields are black.

Remember we are talking about an A model here and the stall warning system is not required by TCDS for any 170 other than the B model like yours Gary. I'd bet most A models don't have a stall warning system though I have seen them on some including mine.

It is on the original Cessna bill of sale and I know theres a vane (I think that’s what its called) on the wing. Maybe its behind the panel. I’ll check tomorrow.

[GAHorn]

Good tip thanks. I’ll probably do that. Your saying do the rivets first. I assume that means they should be painted, right?

If you attempt to install the rivets after a powdercoat…I’m afraid you’ll chip the new powder coating….

[rnealon1]

George,

How difficult is it to remove the yokes with the shafts? Would love to refinish yokes while it is in annual, but I am not an A & P.

Thanks,

Bob

[brianm]

It's a single nut/bolt at a u-joint. The hard part is getting under the panel. Easiest with the seats removed but doable without. Definitely ask your A&P first, but many would be comfortable with you removing them yourself and inspecting the work after you re-install them. It will require a logbook entry from the A&P.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The dials on the instruments are yellow, or dirty white. I sure hope thats not original color. Were they white? Assuming so, wheres a good shop to get them rebuilt or at least the dials refreshed?

Keystone Instruments, in Lock Haven PA can overhaul/clean the mechanics and refurbish the dials and face plates making them look like new. http://keystoneinstruments.com/

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Remember we are talking about an A model here and the stall warning system is not required by TCDS for any 170 other than the B model like yours Gary. I'd bet most A models don't have a stall warning system though I have seen them on some including mine.

It is on the original Cessna bill of sale and I know theres a vane (I think that’s what its called) on the wing. Maybe its behind the panel. I’ll check tomorrow.

You will find the horn under the instrument panel. Late B models had them mounted behind the glove box.

[GAHorn]

“It is on the original Cessna bill of sale and I know theres a vane (I think that’s what its called) on the wing. Maybe its behind the panel. I’ll check tomorrow”

The stall warning system installed as original equipment was a “Safe-Flight” system..consisting of of a “Lift Detector” …(which you are calling a “vane”)…..and a cockpit-device which consists of a horn and/or a light….. completed the system as offered by Cessna. If it was/is installed ….it must be operational.

[AWilson]

My incompetence is holding me back from posting pictures. I will figure it. But in the meantime:

The "light conductor" is unfortunately missing

Going halfway up the firewall is what I believe is piece of original carpet. It is a brown. Pretty ugly!

Also above that and presumably behind it is some insulation. Is there any asbestos concerns I should have? It looks like yellow fiberglass building insulation.

The factory equipment list says "Stall warning indicator" Looks like a regular cessna stall warning device on the L.E. of the wing. Has what looks like a modern buzzer on the glove box.

Interion doors and window frames are painted red. But I see a cream color behind the side panel on the door post.
Has TIC170A developed any modern day interior paint color equivalents that I could consider if I want to go back to original?

Behind the seat, under the hat rack is what looks to be original green canvas covers that go along the sides and back. They are snapped in I believe.

I will strongly consider sending the instruments in for refurbishment. It looks like some of the faces are not originally black. The seem to be a light beige or tan. Is this correct?
If so, were all like this or only some?
Are the dials and numbers themselves supposed to be white? or is the off white correct?

[GAHorn]

My incompetence is holding me back from posting pictures. I will figure it. But in the meantime:

The "light conductor" is unfortunately missing

Going halfway up the firewall is what I believe is piece of original carpet. It is a brown. Pretty ugly!

Also above that and presumably behind it is some insulation. Is there any asbestos concerns I should have? It looks like yellow fiberglass building insulation.

The factory equipment list says "Stall warning indicator" Looks like a regular cessna stall warning device on the L.E. of the wing. Has what looks like a modern buzzer on the glove box.

Interion doors and window frames are painted red. But I see a cream color behind the side panel on the door post.
Has TIC170A developed any modern day interior paint color equivalents that I could consider if I want to go back to original?

Behind the seat, under the hat rack is what looks to be original green canvas covers that go along the sides and back. They are snapped in I believe.

I will strongly consider sending the instruments in for refurbishment. It looks like some of the faces are not originally black. The seem to be a light beige or tan. Is this correct?
If so, were all like this or only some?
Are the dials and numbers themselves supposed to be white? or is the off white correct?

Asbestos: Not unless in the last 70 years and numerous owners and mechanics and someones added it. (There is a high likelihood that you will find plenty of unrecorded or “no history” items installed.)

Stall warning: Cessna never made a stall warning device that I’m aware of. “Safe Flight” company in White Plains, NY made most of the type most often seen on Cessnas (which consist of a “Lift detector” vane on the left wing leading edge, and a Horn/Light or Horn-only, black “Bakelite” or plastic cylindrical device mounted in the panel or hidden behind the panel (Usually on the gove box)….and powered by a self-resetting circuit breaker circuit shared with the T&B. Of course, in the last 70 years anyone might have changed that circuit and/or buzzer/indicator.
The A-model is not required to have a stall-warning…it was optional equipment. (The B-model is required equipment.) It is even possible your left wing came from a B-model and adapted to your fuselage….again…70-years makes for a lot of possibilities.)

The MX Library section (TIC170A full-membership req’d for access) of these Forums has lots of comments and posts about original colors and interior items. This link has several pages about the subject: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1094

Instruments: As previously mentioned, there’s ample opportunity for your installed istruments to have been replaced of the last 70 years. Some of the original instruments installed by Cessna were WW2-surplus and may be of various makes. (Example, the Air Corps had numerous contractors who made almost identical instruments. My own attitude gyro was made by the Tennstedt Division of General Motors…a virtual copy of the Sperry product. Jack and Heinz also made many of them, and several other mfr’s as well.)
Some of your instruments may have their legends/numbers painted with radium…. something since-found to be outlawed after the ladies painting them would lick their paint-brushes before dipping them into the powdered-radium came down with oral cancers. There were at one time several WWW webpages devoted to how much exposure a person working in an avionics-shop with such instruments in storage-rooms must limit themselves time-wise.
It is a prohibited item to ship via U.S. mail and most instrument shops will not accept them. Tossing them into the land-fill can bring you unwanted Atomic Engergy Dept. and Coast-Guard scrutiny. If you should find you have some, then you are supposed to contact your state or local hazardous materials agency for disposal instructions. (I once bought some obsolete Narco Manuals from a fellow on the East Coast who happened to be a Coastie and his day-job was to dive around the hulls of ships entering U.S. ports to measure for radioactivity and certain other hazards to detect “dirty cargo” and prevent the importation. When I mentioned I had a “collection” of old radium-dial instruments he became very interested in what I planned to do with them. I managed to re-direct the conversation. Stories abound of U.S aircraft coming back into the country from Canada and finding the Customs Agents get excited when their geiger counters alarm near the aircraft panel.)

Baggage compartment: The ‘48 ragwing had a cloth “bag” and used “snaps” (AN227-11B and -12B snaps/sockets) to attach it. I believe AirTex also sold some similar. The A-model is believed to have already transitioned to hard-panels covered in fabric. If that is correct then your compartment may have an AirTex interior.

Hopefully others will chime-in on this.

[AWilson]

My incompetence is holding me back from posting pictures. I will figure it. But in the meantime:

The "light conductor" is unfortunately missing

Going halfway up the firewall is what I believe is piece of original carpet. It is a brown. Pretty ugly!

Also above that and presumably behind it is some insulation. Is there any asbestos concerns I should have? It looks like yellow fiberglass building insulation.

The factory equipment list says "Stall warning indicator" Looks like a regular cessna stall warning device on the L.E. of the wing. Has what looks like a modern buzzer on the glove box.

Interion doors and window frames are painted red. But I see a cream color behind the side panel on the door post.
Has TIC170A developed any modern day interior paint color equivalents that I could consider if I want to go back to original?

Behind the seat, under the hat rack is what looks to be original green canvas covers that go along the sides and back. They are snapped in I believe.

I will strongly consider sending the instruments in for refurbishment. It looks like some of the faces are not originally black. The seem to be a light beige or tan. Is this correct?
If so, were all like this or only some?
Are the dials and numbers themselves supposed to be white? or is the off white correct?

Asbestos: Not unless in the last 70 years and numerous owners and mechanics and someones added it. (There is a high likelihood that you will find plenty of unrecorded or “no history” items installed.)

Stall warning: Cessna never made a stall warning device that I’m aware of. “Safe Flight” company in White Plains, NY made most of the type most often seen on Cessnas (which consist of a “Lift detector” vane on the left wing leading edge, and a Horn/Light or Horn-only, black “Bakelite” or plastic cylindrical device mounted in the panel or hidden behind the panel (Usually on the gove box)….and powered by a self-resetting circuit breaker circuit shared with the T&B. Of course, in the last 70 years anyone might have changed that circuit and/or buzzer/indicator.
The A-model is not required to have a stall-warning…it was optional equipment. (The B-model is required equipment.) It is even possible your left wing came from a B-model and adapted to your fuselage….again…70-years makes for a lot of possibilities.)

The MX Library section (TIC170A full-membership req’d for access) of these Forums has lots of comments and posts about original colors and interior items. This link has several pages about the subject: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1094

Instruments: As previously mentioned, there’s ample opportunity for your installed istruments to have been replaced of the last 70 years. Some of the original instruments installed by Cessna were WW2-surplus and may be of various makes. (Example, the Air Corps had numerous contractors who made almost identical instruments. My own attitude gyro was made by the Tennstedt Division of General Motors…a virtual copy of the Sperry product. Jack and Heinz also made many of them, and several other mfr’s as well.)
Some of your instruments may have their legends/numbers painted with radium…. something since-found to be outlawed after the ladies painting them would lick their paint-brushes before dipping them into the powdered-radium came down with oral cancers. There were at one time several WWW webpages devoted to how much exposure a person working in an avionics-shop with such instruments in storage-rooms must limit themselves time-wise.
It is a prohibited item to ship via U.S. mail and most instrument shops will not accept them. Tossing them into the land-fill can bring you unwanted Atomic Engergy Dept. and Coast-Guard scrutiny. If you should find you have some, then you are supposed to contact your state or local hazardous materials agency for disposal instructions. (I once bought some obsolete Narco Manuals from a fellow on the East Coast who happened to be a Coastie and his day-job was to dive around the hulls of ships entering U.S. ports to measure for radioactivity and certain other hazards to detect “dirty cargo” and prevent the importation. When I mentioned I had a “collection” of old radium-dial instruments he became very interested in what I planned to do with them. I managed to re-direct the conversation. Stories abound of U.S aircraft coming back into the country from Canada and finding the Customs Agents get excited when their geiger counters alarm near the aircraft panel.)

Baggage compartment: The ‘48 ragwing had a cloth “bag” and used “snaps” (AN227-11B and -12B snaps/sockets) to attach it. I believe AirTex also sold some similar. The A-model is believed to have already transitioned to hard-panels covered in fabric. If that is correct then your compartment may have an AirTex interior.

Hopefully others will chime-in on this.

Thanks much for the comments.
So then I believe you are saying that it is difficult to know if I have original instruments worth restoring because Cessna used whatever they had. If that is correct, then maybe it would be best to just replace them all with like instruments.
I will look closer but the canvas is really old. Very stiff. Interior though is definitely not original. Red velour!

[n2582d]

... Behind the seat, under the hat rack is what looks to be original green canvas covers that go along the sides and back. They are snapped in I believe. ...

Take a look at the photos Bruce took of an extremely original '48 C-170 here. It appears that on the '48 the left side and rear baggage compartment cover was one piece, p/n 051101-33. On the C-170A the rear and left side baggage compartment covers are two separate parts. The right side baggage compartment cover on the '48 (fig. 35-35) is p/n 0511001-13. This is the same part number on the C-170A is shown in fig. 40-32. So, if your covers look like the photos Bruce took, I think you're correct in assuming you are looking at the original green canvas covers in your baggage compartment.

[AWilson]

I believe mine looks exactly like that. Heres a picture