O-300 crank failed/ do I upgrade?

sanships · Post by **sanships** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:20 am

My engine arrived at western skyways last march. Since then, they discovered that my crank was good but the flange was bent a bit. When they had it straighened, it cracked and since then it's been almost 1 month and they still have not found a replacement crank. I am frustrated as you can see.

Since I am doing a full remanufacturing of my aircraft, I am now thinking of just replacing the engine with mods from either Delair or Xpmods as discussed in earlier forums. I really wanted to keep the engine original but fears of running out of spares/parts in case of an accident is making me think twice. It would be harder to get these in the Philippines where I operate.

Questions:
The current O-300a requires all new exhaust system and major overhaul with replacement crank(if they eventually find one servicable) is coming out to be $21K.
1) Do I just replace the crank and live with it?
2) Looking at previous posts that the Delair CS prop conversion is $30K, is this better compromise than the xpmod conversion cost/performance wise? Can I still burn mogas with the lyc O-360? Powerflow?
3) What real world exchange value can I expect western skyways to offer me and can they look for an engine for me and overhaul it instead? Or should I just buy a used engine and send it to them instead? Again, I live in the Philippines and would not be able to see the used engine before I buy it. That is the same with the prop and governor replacement too!
4) How much would new engine cost? Is it a viable alternative?

Thanks!

Alvin

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:14 pm

Alvin I take a stab at trying to help. At the very least your post will get back in front of everyone.

First as you will read in other posts here $30 to upgrade to the 180 is probably on the low side. It is a great airplane when you are done.

Generally following the FAA regulations to the letter you will not be able to run auto fuel in the Lycoming 180. I'm not sure what regulations you have to follow in the Phillipines.

As for your engine you have a few options. First the reason your engine shop can't fine a crank is that there aren't many good 8 bolt cranks available any more. So what do you do. Again I don't know what regulations you have to follow but here are 2 options, one that can be done in the US the other might take some leg work.

First you could find and buy a later 0-300-C or D model. Get one and rebuild it or buy one already done. If you need to there is an STC to install this engine in the 170. You will have to buy a 6 bolt prop but at least you'll have your old prop to trade/sell.

The second option which you may have to do some leg work to get through FAA regulations is replace your 8 bolt crank with a 6 bolt version from a later 0-300-D engine. It can be done but legality in the US is questionable. You will still have to replace your prop. This second option was just recently discussed in another thread.

Hope this gives you something to think about and maybe others will have ideas and more information for you.

Good luck.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:29 pm

I don't know where everyone gets the idea that the 180-horse 170 can't use car gas. I don't know about the EAA STC,but Petersen's "engines approved for auto fuel" list includes the Lycoming O-360-A1A,which it footnotes as requiring 91 octane minimum. "Airframes approved for auto fuel" list includes Cessna 170A & 170B. Doesn't appear to include the ragwing,BTW.
I think there's quite a few C-145's & O-300A's which have had a 6-bolt crank installed when the original turned out to be no good, and a suitable 8-bolt replacement was not available. I'm sure there is some basis for approval,whether it is simply inclusion on the parts list of the major overhaul logbook entry,or re-designation of the engine as an O-300C . This was just recently discussed on another thread. I don't recall if there was any conclusions reached with regards to approval. The latest going price that I've heard for a good crank was around $2500 or $3K,as of a couple years ago.

Eric

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:51 pm

An autogas STC is a two-part STC. The airframe is one, the engine is another. The exact combination must be named. Just because an engine in one airplane is STC'd for autogas, doesn't automatically allow it in a different airframe. Whichever STC is used, must specify the O360 in a 170.
$4800 was the last price I heard for an O300A crank ground .010U.
Using a 6 bolt crank in a O30A or C145 is an alteration of the engine. First that alteration must gain approval. Either the 6 bolt crank must be approved as an alteration for the engine, or the engine must be converted to a C or D or E engine, and then that engine must gain approval for installation. And the prop change that occurs with the engine model change must also gain approval for the installation. Not to say it can't be done. ONly that you can't just simpl stick the 6 bolt crank in, and fly away and still be legal without the paperwork (despite the fact it'd fly just fine.)

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:03 pm

George I'll back you up on the auto STC thing. Had a Cherokee which I burned autofuel in the 0320 150 hp. Had it upgraded to 160Hp No more autofuel despite the fact that Peterson has the STC for that engine. I could change the muffler system and cowling to a newer model and added a pump all for over $3000 then talk the FAA into approving it cause it woudlb be identical to a new model Cherokee which Peterson did have the combination STC.

What regulations do they have to follow in the Philippines? Perhaps Alvin doesn't have to gain the approval of our overly cooperative FAA.

sanships · Post by **sanships** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:31 pm

Thanks for the insight guys! I have just found a good crank at 3,800. It seems like maintaining the original engine would be my best bet, cheapest too! Total cost would set me back 24K with new exhaust, 2 of my old cylinders remanned for spare and the engine/accessories majored to new specs with new ECi cylinders.

Just seems like I'm 15K shy of Delair's STC which would give me a new engine and accessories fire wall forward. This whole restoration project is now looking like a 60K aircraft when I am done. Can't imagine if it is still wise to go close to 80K with the engine mod.

Obviously, I would not be able to sell my aircraft anytime soon and still recoup the investment. But it is really a beautiful plane especially with everything new. Paint, interior, electrical and engine. I have not even flown in it since it was not airworthy at the time of purchase. It would be the only flying 170 in the Philippines when done( the other one crashed last month). Maybe my sons would gain interest in flying, making it a family heirloom of sorts.

The FAA equivalent here is ATO( Air Transportation Office) who mainly follows the FAA system. Not sure if what I have to say about our system here is good or bad but you decide. Although they follow the FAA system, the people who are assigned as inspectors are not long time pilots but A&P's who sometimes have little experience in different , non mainstream GA aircrafts.

Thus, unless they are looking at cessna 172/182/206's, Beech baron/bonanza's and piper pa28/32, they would not be too knwledgeable on the stc's/modifications available to the other aircrafts. Some owners here just make the minor mods without informing the authorities because they know that it will never be noticed anyway.

That's why I had my aircraft taken apart, replaced all rivets etc.. because I wanted to find out if there were any mods that was done to it by the previous owner that did not conform to the original TC. Then I used all the 337's on file in our association to make the alterations I wanted as basis so I have some paperwork to show in case the authorities do wise up.

Obviously, a lot can be done here as long as your mechanic will agree to the alteration. But most of the time it is up to you to decide if you want to inform the authorities or not. This is the reason why I love all the information this association has for the 170 in guiding me on how best I fly it safely and efficiently, especially these forums.

I will try to come up with an article to submit in the future about my experiences in remanufacturing my aircraft.

Thanks a lot for the help so far! Right now I can only imagine what it would be like to the 170. And from what I've read, it would be great!!!

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:12 am

Alvin, I don't know how much tailwheel time or 170 time you have. But if you need a checkout,I'd think twice before getting it from the guy who crashed the other 170!

Eric

Alterfede · Post by **Alterfede** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:38 pm

Alvin, seems that things with general aviation in the Phillipines are the same than in argentina, Saludos