Lost C-170

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:18 pm

Bela,I made a few observation orbits around Heron Island yesterday (Sat) also. Guess I'm dumb,but I wasn't sure what I saw was an oil slick--just looked like the usual surface scum to me,or maybe the beginning of one of those algae blooms. I'll take your word for it though.
For those who are interested,the area in question is adjacent to Heron Island in Case Inlet in the south Puget Sound. If you drew a line between Bremerton Airport & Olympia Airport,it'd be right on the line just north of halfway between the two.
So where'd ya go on the coast,Bela? Looked like it was a good day for a picnic at Copalis if the tides were right. I went to Shady Acres,Tacoma Narrows,and Port Orchard. I see the bakery/deli at TWI is out of business--had some "get the hell out"-type legal notices posted on the front door. Too bad--I heard it was a pretty good place,but I never happened to eat there yet.

Eric

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:55 am

Re: The reported "Oil Slick"---- Gasoline also makes an "Oil Slick".

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:51 am

zero.one.victor wrote:Bela,I made a few observation orbits around Heron Island yesterday (Sat) also. Guess I'm dumb,but I wasn't sure what I saw was an oil slick--just looked like the usual surface scum to me,or maybe the beginning of one of those algae blooms. I'll take your word for it though.
For those who are interested,the area in question is adjacent to Heron Island in Case Inlet in the south Puget Sound. If you drew a line between Bremerton Airport & Olympia Airport,it'd be right on the line just north of halfway between the two.
So where'd ya go on the coast,Bela? Looked like it was a good day for a picnic at Copalis if the tides were right. I went to Shady Acres,Tacoma Narrows,and Port Orchard. I see the bakery/deli at TWI is out of business--had some "get the hell out"-type legal notices posted on the front door. Too bad--I heard it was a pretty good place,but I never happened to eat there yet.

Eric

The guys have lat-long for the slick. I didn't actually make a note of the coordinates, but we looked on a map (x marks the spot) before I took
off and headed that way. It's towards the north end of Case Inlet, roughly
in the middle. The slick is fairly skinny (probably fuel), and extends
northwards for several hundred yards before it disperses in the
currents. I was told today that they will attempt to recover the bodies
tomorrow morning.

I just went to Ocean Shores and then Hoquiam (to gas up) and
then back home. Was dissapointed to see that Hoquiam no longer has 80/87 fuel.... (the fuel boxes both say 100LL now). However, upon
gassing up with those high-flow pump handles (that don't have
the automatic shut-off... Hate those), I noticed a nice red stain
of fuel running back along the top of my wing.

Y'all be careful out there (if your bird really needs 100LL). I'm wondering
if they re-filled the tanks with 100LL but there was still some 80/87
left in there....?

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:48 am

Didn't see anyone else pipe up, so I thought I'd post that they
found the 170. It's sitting upright on it's gear at the bottom
of Case Inlet in about 150 feet of water. There's a short
video clip here:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/2924326/detail.html#

Looks like the engine got ripped off in the crash, but otherwise,
the aircraft looks basically intact.

They are supposed to recover the bodies tomorrow.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:23 pm

The TV news interviewed someone in the area who said he saw the airplane flying straight & level along the water,but "very,very low". There's been a lot of speculation around here about what might have caused the crash,especially since there was apparently no distress call on the radio. Some have thought that maybe the pilot or copilot suffered a heart attack or stroke & pitched forward against the yoke,diving it into the water. Now I'm thinking maybe Dave was flying along just above the surface,& either inattention or disorientation (the old glassy water thing) might have caused him to dip the wheels hard into the water,resulting in a noseover or cartwheel type crash. Guess nobody knows but Dave & his passenger,& they're sure not talking about it.
I like flying low along the water as much as anyone else (close to shore,of course) but am too chicken to maintain less than about 50 feet altitude minimum,usually more like 150-200 feet. Even a bird strike is a possibility doing this kind of flying,you've really got to keep your eyes open. A seagull would be bad enough,but a heron or goose would be a real disaster.

Eric

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:59 pm

Eric

Good theory. One question though is wouldn't the tires water ski if it touched at speed and at a near level attitude? I don't know.

That video was a real sobering thing for us who fly over that water. Must have been real spooky for you who lost the engine over water.

It drives home the point that our flying activity is inherently dangerous and we need to do all we can to make it as safe as possible.

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:02 pm

I've never done it (never will), but I understand you have to lock the brakes to "waterski". If you don't, over you go....

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:30 pm

I've never water-ski'd (too chicken!) but know people who have. Evidently,to do it you make a shallow,fast descent. I've heard of at least two people who goofed up & made a steep,slow descent instead & went for a swim. One of these guys I know personally & he is a (normally) very competent pilot. His new nickname (not to his face!) is Dunky!

Several year ago,there was a Cessna 310 that went into the water & sunk in the Admiralty Inlet area near Port Townsend. Both souls onboard survived. The pilot claimed an engine failure,but it was speculated that he was wave-skimming & either just got too low & dipped his propeller(s) or else dipped a wing-tip when maneuvering. Now that's low!
Regarding water-skiing,there's a very cool photo on the skywagon.org site,of three 180's water-skiing in formation. Very cool! But way too scary for this kid.

Eric

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:35 pm

I was just reading an article in the latest 170 News by longtime member Sharon Trembly,about a "flying safari" he took in Australia a couple years ago. He mentioned that all of the flying (with a gaggle of 7 airplanes) "was done over open water or uninhabited land,and was anywhere from 250' to 500' altitude all the way through the trip". What's that expression about there being no old AND bold pilots? This might be monday-morning quarter-backing, but that low,over-the-open-water business doesn't sound too bright to me. Especially when they have crocodiles,deadly snakes,etc along the route! At least there were other planes along to mark the spot to look for remains.
Bad enough to do the low,over-water stuff along the shoreline like I do sometime (fool that I am),but over the open water--no thanks! An over-water engine failure a couple years ago kinda put the fear of God into me on that stuff. Those trusty engines can,do,and WILL turn on you when you least expect it!
OK,I'm climbing down from the soapbox now.......

Eric

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:21 am

I've seen the picture of a 185 water-skiing, and of a Stearman doing it as well. I'd like to meet the guy who first tried it...sorta like the the person who ate the first raw oyster!

Seems like a dumb ass stunt to me...Russ Farris

TP · Post by TP » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:12 pm

Have a friend that used to chase ducks with a wing tip across glassy water until he dipped it.

He and the student came out unhurt. I don't know what plane he did this in, I'll have to ask him some time. I do know the RAF didn't think much of it. Bet that was a engine out explaination.

TP

Roesbery · Post by **Roesbery** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:34 pm

Suposed to be a vidio around ( haven't seen it ) of cubs with big tires skiing on lake water up to and onto a short beach then departing from the beach onto the water for take off. Would be good to know the finer points of what will and will not work.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:24 pm

What is this? The aeronautical version of MTV's movie "JackAss"?
I hope cooler heads prevail when anyone thinks this is a cool thing to try.

Maineboy · Post by **Maineboy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:35 am

I have a home video of a Taylorcraft landing on water then going to shore and stopping on a uphill runway of about 150 feet. Then he comes down the hill (runway), hits the water, goes across the water and takes off! His tires aren't much bigger than 8:50's. This is how the guy gets to his camp and does it often.
I also have photos of 180, 170, T-craft, and cubs on the water. "Moutain Pilot " magazine had a "how to" article a couple years back. They made it sound pretty easy. The Bush Pilot in the article would land in the big part of the river and follow it upstream (around bends) then stop on a small beach.
Myself, I wouldn't risk my life or my plane to prove it can be done. I already know it can be done, plus I don't have b*lls it takes to set down on water with tires on. I'll take a set of edo 2000's anyday!!

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:53 pm

Ditto here for Mainboy and George. There are too many ways to get killed in the plane already.