The International Cessna 170 Association

gahorn wrote:
It would do no good to steal it as it is programmed to the airframe reg/sn. As soon as a thief powered it up... their location would be immediately known.

Your assuming the thieves would know about this?

lowNslow wrote:

gahorn wrote:
It would do no good to steal it as it is programmed to the airframe reg/sn. As soon as a thief powered it up... their location would be immediately known.

Your assuming the thieves would know about this?

That's what insurance and law-enforcement is for.... and again, ... as soon as they apply power to it... their location is known.
It would be more profitable and safer for them to steal fuel or a headset instead.

The GDL-82 s on sale at Aircraft Spruce for $1695.

Installation of the tailBeacon is a minor alteration, not requiring the expense of installation of the GDL82.... but I expect the bidding-war is beginning and I'm glad to see it. Another avionics shop I visited quoted $700 to install it and certify the GDL82. (Spruce will not sell it to you directly, but only thru another shop I am told.) One of our long-time Members who bought the Stratus unit had to order it shipped to his AP/IA via his avionics shop due to the above restrictions. uAvionics tailBeacon will ship direct to the customer. (SPruce also offers the wingtip Beacon for $1495.)

(Not trying to sell anyone on the tailBeacon over any other product. Just trying to point out some of the unknowns in the formulae.)

Just some notes on the Uavionix units, they currently don't list the C170 on their STC list.
https://uavionix.com/downloads/skybeaco ... -Rev-B.pdf
Should be an easy fix given they do list the early C172.

Also while this is an easy install it still requires an IA to do the STC/337 work and at least supervise the installation. One other issue is that Uavionix is being sued by Garmin for patent infringement which would scare me away until it is resolved as I was involved the Navworx fiasco who ended up in bankruptcy which left me with a $1700 paper weight.

lowNslow wrote:Just some notes on the Uavionix units, they currently don't list the C170 on their STC list.
https://uavionix.com/downloads/skybeaco ... -Rev-B.pdf
Should be an easy fix given they do list the early C172.

Also while this is an easy install it still requires an IA to do the STC/337 work and at least supervise the installation. One other issue is that Uavionix is being sued by Garmin for patent infringement which would scare me away until it is resolved as I was involved the Navworx fiasco who ended up in bankruptcy which left me with a $1700 paper weight.

The unit does not require an STC, 337 or IA as it is a minor alteration. Any A&P can install and sign it off. All it requires is: Replace the Nav Light, Install the software via smartphone, Fly the airplane to get the $500 rebate. The Garmin suit will not affect the continued use of owned equipment. (Although, it may make a future repair of the equipt problematical IF Garmin should prevail. An alternative possible is uAvionix may be on the hook for payment to Garmin, but that would leave the end-user in the clear.)

I asked this specific question to uAvionix rep and the response was expected... words to the effect that 1-They did not steal Garmin proprietary/patent data and their own patent proves that point, and 2- Garmin is simply attempting to shut uAvionix down and discourage other technological wannabees from getting into the fray by tossing threats/large-money at it, forcing larger investment capital by competitors...Garmin being only a PITA. uAvionix expects to prevail when the court reads the uAvionix patent application.

Here is the statement on Uavionix's email I received today.

"What if my aircraft is not on the AML?

Good news! Under FAA Memo titled "Installation Approval for ADS-B OUT Systems," the FAA explains that after an STC is achieved for ADS-B OUT equipment, additional installations can be accomplished with an A&P with Inspection Authorization (IA) so long as the installation does not require airframe modification. This process requires completion of a form called FAA Form 337 MAJOR REPAIR AND ALTERATION. We are providing guidance with a sample skyBeacon Form 337 here and will post on our website once we begin shipping to make the process easier. We have more info on this on our FAQ on the skyBeacon product page. Also see the sidebar from an article from AEA in Avionics Magazine."

Since the C170 is not on the AML yet the above procedure applies.

Regarding the lawsuit he MAY be right but these are the the types of comments I heard ad nauseam from Navworx so buyer beware - just saying.

Karl, I believe your info is the most recent, being posted today, Nov 15..

They also have postponed the shipments of tailBeacon from the previous today/Nov 15 to Jan., stating their production has fallen later due to the wing beacon production changes, which are now promised to be shipped end of Nov. (My preference has been the tail beacon because of my desire to retain symmetry with my Whelen wingtip strobes... if the Garmin GDL can be installed more simply than the crazy quotes being made so-far...I'll change to that product... at least that's my thoughts for now.)

The info I posted came from their website and was dated August....

but it's stil on the uAvionix tailBeacon website:
The tailBeacon installation is considered a minor alteration and can be approved by the installer for most aircraft.


What is interesting is they also state: At this time a form 337 should be completed and submitted along with the proper logbook entries. Please note, the installer must determine if the conditions are appropriate for installation on a specific aircraft. Additional guidance for ADS-B installation, performance verification, logbook entries and 337 instructions have been provided in the FAA policy memo titled “Installation Approval for ADS-B OUT Systems”

Minor alterations do not require anything other than a logbook entry by "an appropriately rated person" which is an A&P. I'll ask them for clarification.
(I suspect they'll refer us to the AFS-360_2016-03-02 but that's also a document which predates the uAvionix products.)

I also noticed in their latest information that there may be some aircraft wings that might not be compatible with their wing tip unit and they are making a template available on line so anyone having a concern about the unit fitting their wing tip can determine by using the template. I seem to remember if the template indicates an issue that you can send the data to them and they will work to resolve the problem.

FAA document AFS-360-2017 says a 337 should be submitted to document the ADSB-out installation. Apparently that includes the airplane in my mechanic’s shop that had its Garmin GTX330 transponder upgraded to do “out”, but no other mods. Why is a 337 needed for that? That’s neither a repair nor an alteration.

It’s my belief that the component has been modified [altered due to different soft ware ] that a requires a 337.

DaveF wrote:FAA document AFS-360-2017 says a 337 should be submitted to document the ADSB-out installation. Apparently that includes the airplane in my mechanic’s shop that had its Garmin GTX330 transponder upgraded to do “out”, but no other mods. Why is a 337 needed for that? That’s neither a repair nor an alteration.

The GTX 330 is an interesting animal as regards the ADSB out function. It can be sent to Garmin and upgraded to broadcast the ES1090 ADSB out info, but to be legal it still requires a WAAS capable GPS source. If your aircraft already has one installed, then you are good to go. If not, then you need to install one and hook it up to your GTX330.

My take on it is that I might as well just put a Garmin GDL 82 into the plane and not mess with my GTX330 as it costs roughly $1900 to modify the Transponder ( as well as pull it and send it to Garmin ), and another $1800 to put in the -82. For those prices, it would be cheaper to buy the GTX 335 and be done with it, if you really needed ES1090.

The Garmin 82 is not an option with the GDX330 because you can't use it with a Mode S transponder, only Mode C transponders.

lowNslow wrote:The Garmin 82 is not an option with the GDX330 because you can't use it with a Mode S transponder, only Mode C transponders.

Well so it is.....

Apparently I had glossed over that because I sat down at the Arlington Air show, in the Garmin tent with a Garmin salesman. We were discussing the solutions to my GTX 330 and he told me all I needed was the GDL 82, and not to send it in for the Extended squitter upgrade because the 82 would solve my problems.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention, and it looks like it is back to the drawing board for me....

gahorn wrote:
What is interesting is they also state: At this time a form 337 should be completed and submitted along with the proper logbook entries. Please note, the installer must determine if the conditions are appropriate for installation on a specific aircraft. Additional guidance for ADS-B installation, performance verification, logbook entries and 337 instructions have been provided in the FAA policy memo titled “Installation Approval for ADS-B OUT Systems”

Minor alterations do not require anything other than a logbook entry by "an appropriately rated person" which is an A&P. I'll ask them for clarification.
(I suspect they'll refer us to the AFS-360_2016-03-02 but that's also a document which predates the uAvionix products.)

AFS-360_2016-03-02.pdf

Yes, I agree. The procedure above was also required for the Garmin GDL 82. Garmin saved them selves a lot work by getting an STC for only one aircraft (Mooney) so all other aircraft had to follow the steps in AFS-360 above. At least Uavionixs made an effort to STC numerous aircraft.