What to offer a long time owner
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
What to offer a long time owner
Let me start by saying that I'm not Politically correct, nor am I a computer person and I'm the world's best speler. For those that I offend I apologize. So much for the legal disclaimer. Hi I'm paul an I'm a new member with a question that probable has been asked before and will be undoutable asked again; but I payed my membership dues just to ask this question so here go's. What is a 1955 170B worth. I know this is a loaded question. So here is the ifo. that I have. The plane own's it's second owner, who it aquired in 68. Since then it's allowed the pilot to put about 1'000 hrs. on the meter up to 1998 when the owner lost his medical. Since then it has been sitting. THe plane has a total time of over 2,000 hrs. but under 3,000 hrs. it has never been hangared. It's located on the east coast in the midatlantic area. (Thought's of corrosion) The plane is almost original. What I mean by that is it has no upgrades other than a ELT. All of the insturments/ radio are original or very close to. It is IFR. In shaort everything in the panel is old very old. The motor is original. The owner think's its in great shape because he had a infield overhaul inthe 90's and has only put 130 hrs on it since then. I am not of the same mind as he is about that subject. I have read the posting about engines with low hrs. high time. What is the TBO on a cotinental? Can they be remaned an rezeroed? The prop. is original, no nicks. Goodyear brakes and crosswind landing gear. I'm not familiar with crosswind landing gear is it a good thing? I don't know of It's use other than on B52's. Paint is not peeling but is terrable oxidized. Not concerned about that I know how to shoot paint. New seat covering ( god offal plaid ) Newish head liner. Minor damage history , PLane was baccked in to a tree resulting in damage to a aileron which has been fixed. Rotten tires and leaking brakes. That's about all I know. Have not looked over the book's at this time. I have a friend who is a API that is willing to do a indepth annual. Where are the corrosion hot spot's on this particular type of plane? So what do you good people think it's worth???? I have made a offer of this order to the owner. A he can sell it to me and walk away, or B he can sell it to me at a very resonable price And go flying with me from time to time . ( I like haveing some one along for the ride) On that bases what would be fair? TP.
I must be okay cause, I haven't gotten a letter from the FAA.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Well TP you ask a tough question as you know. I don't think anyone will be able to give you a value.
The local engine overhaul doesn't make it bad but the fact it's been sitting probably hasn't done it any good. Ditto for all of those instruments.
The Goodyear brakes which are necessary with the crosswind landing gear are not highly thought of with 170 owners. I'd suspect most here will recomment replacement with a straight axle and Cleveland brakes. I'd suggest you learn all you can about these aircraft then educate your A&P friend. You've made a really good start by jioning use. Do a really good annual of the aircraft and see what works and what doesn't then make an offer. figure what is going to cost to make it work then make an offer.
I've seen what the owners describe as a first rate example of a 170B offered for $50.000 and more. As a start you could add up all the money its going to take to bring it to first rate standard, subract it from that arbitrary figure and see whats left. You'll at least get a better feeling what you might want to offer. Remember there is probably a good example offered for sale in the price range I mentioned which you could have right now.
The local engine overhaul doesn't make it bad but the fact it's been sitting probably hasn't done it any good. Ditto for all of those instruments.
The Goodyear brakes which are necessary with the crosswind landing gear are not highly thought of with 170 owners. I'd suspect most here will recomment replacement with a straight axle and Cleveland brakes. I'd suggest you learn all you can about these aircraft then educate your A&P friend. You've made a really good start by jioning use. Do a really good annual of the aircraft and see what works and what doesn't then make an offer. figure what is going to cost to make it work then make an offer.
I've seen what the owners describe as a first rate example of a 170B offered for $50.000 and more. As a start you could add up all the money its going to take to bring it to first rate standard, subract it from that arbitrary figure and see whats left. You'll at least get a better feeling what you might want to offer. Remember there is probably a good example offered for sale in the price range I mentioned which you could have right now.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Hi Paul,
As Bruce said, I don’t think anyone here will be able to give you a value – there are too many unknowns when trying to address this over the web and can’t you see it. Issues regarding aircraft that have sat for extended periods and what to look for when buying a 170 have been discussed here several times, so you may be able to find some answers to your questions using the forum's search utility.
TBO on a Continental C-145/O-300 is 1800 hours. From what I’ve read they usually require a TOH before reaching 1800 hours. I haven’t reached that point with mine yet so I defer to our more experienced members. They can certainly be overhauled, but if you have a crank with an 8-bolt prop flange (which is what the original C-145/O-300-A have), and you need new crank they could be hard to find and expensive.
I don’t have any experience with crosswind gear, but I’ve never heard anybody recommend it. Cessna offered it as an option on the 170 and 195. Goodyear brakes are hard to get parts for, so you are probably better off converting to Clevelands.
Regarding instruments/radios, well we all know those get expensive real quick. I’m looking at getting my instruments overhauled so I called Keystone Instruments. They quoted me roughly $125/$150 per instrument with the DG being about $225. Don’t forget, if this stuff is really old, you may also be looking at replacing the wiring and plumbing behind the panel as well. Does it have fuses? Do you want CBs? That work adds up fast as well.
Having said all that, I can certainly share what I ran into having bought a 170 that sat for a bit myself…
First, as you will find many people recommending here, get an annual done as your pre-purchase inspection. Mine was like the one you describe in that it was never hangared and lived near the east coast (eastern NY/western MA) I ran into a number of things during the first year I owned mine and wish I had done an annual.
In no particular order, the problems/surprises I encountered were:
1. The wheel bearings were shot. – I needed new bearings and races all around.
2. Needed new tires
3. It had Cleveland brakes, but the pucks were seized – one more than the other. I needed new brakes.
4. Mice had set up camp in the fuel tank bays. They entered through the gap between the fuel gauge and the opening in the rib at the wing root. I wound up pulling both tanks and scraping out a couple coffee cans full of insulation and other “stuffâ€, cleaning, and zinc chromating the bays.
5. The oil sumps on the C-145/O-300s are magnesium. They corrode if there is moisture in the oil which usually happens when they sit for long periods. My sump had corroded to the point that my A&P poked a hole through the bottom of it with a metal probe. A new sump (4 years ago) was $2,000. I found one used for $600. Replacing the sump involved pulling the engine, removing the intake & exhaust systems, and removing the accessories and accessory case. Not cheap.
6. A mag needed overhaul.
7. Airspeed indicator needed overhaul.
8. Some minor corrosion needed treating
9. Needed new main tailspring.
There were a few other items, but that’s most of it. This little ordeal grounded me for about 3 months.
There will likely be more “problems†than your annual uncovers, so you should prepare for that.
Bruce makes a good point, there is probably a good 170 for sale somewhere right now that can be had for the same money or less (vs. rebuilding one) and little aggravation than buying one that needs lots of work. So I guess you’ll need to decide if taking on the work is something you want to do.
Good luck!
As Bruce said, I don’t think anyone here will be able to give you a value – there are too many unknowns when trying to address this over the web and can’t you see it. Issues regarding aircraft that have sat for extended periods and what to look for when buying a 170 have been discussed here several times, so you may be able to find some answers to your questions using the forum's search utility.
TBO on a Continental C-145/O-300 is 1800 hours. From what I’ve read they usually require a TOH before reaching 1800 hours. I haven’t reached that point with mine yet so I defer to our more experienced members. They can certainly be overhauled, but if you have a crank with an 8-bolt prop flange (which is what the original C-145/O-300-A have), and you need new crank they could be hard to find and expensive.
I don’t have any experience with crosswind gear, but I’ve never heard anybody recommend it. Cessna offered it as an option on the 170 and 195. Goodyear brakes are hard to get parts for, so you are probably better off converting to Clevelands.
Regarding instruments/radios, well we all know those get expensive real quick. I’m looking at getting my instruments overhauled so I called Keystone Instruments. They quoted me roughly $125/$150 per instrument with the DG being about $225. Don’t forget, if this stuff is really old, you may also be looking at replacing the wiring and plumbing behind the panel as well. Does it have fuses? Do you want CBs? That work adds up fast as well.
Having said all that, I can certainly share what I ran into having bought a 170 that sat for a bit myself…
First, as you will find many people recommending here, get an annual done as your pre-purchase inspection. Mine was like the one you describe in that it was never hangared and lived near the east coast (eastern NY/western MA) I ran into a number of things during the first year I owned mine and wish I had done an annual.
In no particular order, the problems/surprises I encountered were:
1. The wheel bearings were shot. – I needed new bearings and races all around.
2. Needed new tires
3. It had Cleveland brakes, but the pucks were seized – one more than the other. I needed new brakes.
4. Mice had set up camp in the fuel tank bays. They entered through the gap between the fuel gauge and the opening in the rib at the wing root. I wound up pulling both tanks and scraping out a couple coffee cans full of insulation and other “stuffâ€, cleaning, and zinc chromating the bays.
5. The oil sumps on the C-145/O-300s are magnesium. They corrode if there is moisture in the oil which usually happens when they sit for long periods. My sump had corroded to the point that my A&P poked a hole through the bottom of it with a metal probe. A new sump (4 years ago) was $2,000. I found one used for $600. Replacing the sump involved pulling the engine, removing the intake & exhaust systems, and removing the accessories and accessory case. Not cheap.
6. A mag needed overhaul.
7. Airspeed indicator needed overhaul.
8. Some minor corrosion needed treating
9. Needed new main tailspring.
There were a few other items, but that’s most of it. This little ordeal grounded me for about 3 months.
There will likely be more “problems†than your annual uncovers, so you should prepare for that.
Bruce makes a good point, there is probably a good 170 for sale somewhere right now that can be had for the same money or less (vs. rebuilding one) and little aggravation than buying one that needs lots of work. So I guess you’ll need to decide if taking on the work is something you want to do.
Good luck!
Doug
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Let me add a little more to what I know about crosswind gear. A good friend of mine has them on his 170A. He has been flying them over 30 years and wouldn't think of taking them off. He rarily actually uses the crosswind capability they offer how ever.
He is a master mechanic capable of fixing all things mechanical. He has collected 2.5 sets of extra crosswind gear and even more Goodyear brake parts besides the ones on the aircraft. He knows the brakes and gear insideout and keeps them adjusted just right. That's why they work for him.
I doubt if you will want the expense and hassle.
They do look cool when we fly for breakfast and he leaves one kicked out. There is always a crowd looking at it and we love to say in a loud voice. Oh No Leroy you broke and axle.
He is a master mechanic capable of fixing all things mechanical. He has collected 2.5 sets of extra crosswind gear and even more Goodyear brake parts besides the ones on the aircraft. He knows the brakes and gear insideout and keeps them adjusted just right. That's why they work for him.
I doubt if you will want the expense and hassle.
They do look cool when we fly for breakfast and he leaves one kicked out. There is always a crowd looking at it and we love to say in a loud voice. Oh No Leroy you broke and axle.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
TP,
Welcome to the Association and hopefully a soon to be 170 owner. You have a great source of information and experienced members in this forum, so use the search engine and read, read, read and ask questions. You should also obtain a copy of “The 170 Bookâ€, there are a lot of great articles about problem areas and maintenance items.
You have a dilemma that most of us owners have faced at least once. How do you know what you’re getting into? You don’t and wont until you own it. You can however minimize your risk. First, its been said here many times, do a complete and thorough annual. Find an AP or AI (AI is a personal preference) that is particularly familiar with the 170. Make sure the mechanic has GRAY hair.
He should not be familiar with that particular airplane or the owner as there could be a conflict of your interest in the quality of the inspection. Make sure all of the paperwork is thoroughly reviewed and the AD’s (few compared to most) all complied with.
From the results, repair estimates and current market prices (see Trade-a-Plane, Flypaper and Trademart) you should be able to extrapolate a reasonable offer for either a project or a flying aircraft.
Second, you might ask yourself a few questions:
1.Do you want to fly the airplane (fly now) or build a project (fly later)?
2.Will you have a hangar or tie-down? (Hard to do maintenance on the ramp)
3.If you’re looking for a “steal†on a 170, are you willing to risk getting stuck with some high repair bills?
4.What kind of flying do you want to do; IFR, VFR? (Costly IFR Certs, 170 is a marginal IFR platform)
5.How much work can you/are you willing to do yourself?
6.Are the avionics FCC/FAR compliant? Are they certifiable? Things have changed since 1998.
7.Does this particular airplane “talk to you�
Sure don’t want to scare you off but the picture you paint sounds risky (insert hidden $$$ here). Agree with the previous posts, a better example might be available and end up costing you lots less in the long run. Good luck and keep us posted…..
JJH55
Welcome to the Association and hopefully a soon to be 170 owner. You have a great source of information and experienced members in this forum, so use the search engine and read, read, read and ask questions. You should also obtain a copy of “The 170 Bookâ€, there are a lot of great articles about problem areas and maintenance items.
You have a dilemma that most of us owners have faced at least once. How do you know what you’re getting into? You don’t and wont until you own it. You can however minimize your risk. First, its been said here many times, do a complete and thorough annual. Find an AP or AI (AI is a personal preference) that is particularly familiar with the 170. Make sure the mechanic has GRAY hair.
He should not be familiar with that particular airplane or the owner as there could be a conflict of your interest in the quality of the inspection. Make sure all of the paperwork is thoroughly reviewed and the AD’s (few compared to most) all complied with.From the results, repair estimates and current market prices (see Trade-a-Plane, Flypaper and Trademart) you should be able to extrapolate a reasonable offer for either a project or a flying aircraft.
Second, you might ask yourself a few questions:
1.Do you want to fly the airplane (fly now) or build a project (fly later)?
2.Will you have a hangar or tie-down? (Hard to do maintenance on the ramp)
3.If you’re looking for a “steal†on a 170, are you willing to risk getting stuck with some high repair bills?
4.What kind of flying do you want to do; IFR, VFR? (Costly IFR Certs, 170 is a marginal IFR platform)
5.How much work can you/are you willing to do yourself?
6.Are the avionics FCC/FAR compliant? Are they certifiable? Things have changed since 1998.
7.Does this particular airplane “talk to you�
Sure don’t want to scare you off but the picture you paint sounds risky (insert hidden $$$ here). Agree with the previous posts, a better example might be available and end up costing you lots less in the long run. Good luck and keep us posted…..
JJH55
Here are the results of the value estimator I used (please note the values of each field I entered);
Aircraft Manufacturer CESSNA AIRCRAFT COMPANY Click Here Return To
Year 1955
Model 170B
ApproximatelyTwo-Thirds (66%) of Aircraft of this Make, Model, and Year will have a Market Value between the Low Range and High Range Values
LowRange $26,800
HighRange $41,900
Estimated value this aircraft: $15,350
AIRFRAME
Airframe Total Time 3000
Hours (must be a number)
Airframe Condition
average
Exterior Paint Condition
poor
Interior Condition
poor
Airframe Maintenance Problems?
Yes
Estimated Cost to Repair Problems.
3500 Dollars
ENGINES
ENGINE #1
Engine Make
Continental
Engine Model
O-300
Time Since Overhaul
900 Hours
Type of Overhaul
Field Overhaul
Engine Maintenance Problems?
Yes
Estimated Cost to Repair Problems
1000 Dollars
PROPELLER(s)
Maintenance Annual Date
June 2003
Are the Log Books Original?
Yes
AD's Complied with?
Yes
AIRFRAME & ENGINE MODIFICATIONS
None
DAMAGE HISTORY
Minor
AVIONICS
The Avionics Package Value.
$650
Avionics #1
Type
TRANSPONDERS
Manufacturer
CESSNA
Model
RT 359A
Aircraft Manufacturer CESSNA AIRCRAFT COMPANY Click Here Return To
Year 1955
Model 170B
ApproximatelyTwo-Thirds (66%) of Aircraft of this Make, Model, and Year will have a Market Value between the Low Range and High Range Values
LowRange $26,800
HighRange $41,900
Estimated value this aircraft: $15,350
AIRFRAME
Airframe Total Time 3000
Hours (must be a number)
Airframe Condition
average
Exterior Paint Condition
poor
Interior Condition
poor
Airframe Maintenance Problems?
Yes
Estimated Cost to Repair Problems.
3500 Dollars
ENGINES
ENGINE #1
Engine Make
Continental
Engine Model
O-300
Time Since Overhaul
900 Hours
Type of Overhaul
Field Overhaul
Engine Maintenance Problems?
Yes
Estimated Cost to Repair Problems
1000 Dollars
PROPELLER(s)
Maintenance Annual Date
June 2003
Are the Log Books Original?
Yes
AD's Complied with?
Yes
AIRFRAME & ENGINE MODIFICATIONS
None
DAMAGE HISTORY
Minor
AVIONICS
The Avionics Package Value.
$650
Avionics #1
Type
TRANSPONDERS
Manufacturer
CESSNA
Model
RT 359A
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
TP let me also welcome you to the
association. That airplane does sound like you could be buying yourself a bunch of problems.
But the Goodyear crosswind gear has exceptionally powerful brakes and the crosswind feature can be disabled by drilling a hole and placing a sheet metal screw in the outside center of each wheel. This locks the outside stamped metal cam with an inside phenolic block and prevents it from going into crosswind mode. (This is probably not legal).
Cessna actually offered crosswind gear as a no-cost option in 1960- I had them on a then-new 180 and loved the brakes but not the crosswind feature. If you're landing in a crosswind on a narrow strip the the gear can unlock into crosswind mode and you find yourself going nearly sideways with limited control. Very disconcerting !
Good luck !
Rudy
association. That airplane does sound like you could be buying yourself a bunch of problems.
But the Goodyear crosswind gear has exceptionally powerful brakes and the crosswind feature can be disabled by drilling a hole and placing a sheet metal screw in the outside center of each wheel. This locks the outside stamped metal cam with an inside phenolic block and prevents it from going into crosswind mode. (This is probably not legal).
Cessna actually offered crosswind gear as a no-cost option in 1960- I had them on a then-new 180 and loved the brakes but not the crosswind feature. If you're landing in a crosswind on a narrow strip the the gear can unlock into crosswind mode and you find yourself going nearly sideways with limited control. Very disconcerting !
Good luck !
Rudy
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eichenberger
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:27 pm
Again, welcome. On my 170B I had straight axles. But I flew many hours, including a trip all of the way across the continent in a Cessna 180 with crosswind gear. I'm going to take a big risk for this group, and say that I love crosswind gear.
I'm an experienced tailwheel pilot (about 1500 hours in tailwheels) in everything from a Champ to a Beech 18 and DC-3.
The day may come when a crosswind gear will save your airplane.
It happened to me in Colorado when I faced winds that a pilot from Ohio never sees. Without exaggerating, or trying to, I bet I landed in at least 30 kts of crosswind.
Almost lost it, but didn't, thanks to the crosswind gear.
I'm an experienced tailwheel pilot (about 1500 hours in tailwheels) in everything from a Champ to a Beech 18 and DC-3.
The day may come when a crosswind gear will save your airplane.
It happened to me in Colorado when I faced winds that a pilot from Ohio never sees. Without exaggerating, or trying to, I bet I landed in at least 30 kts of crosswind.
Almost lost it, but didn't, thanks to the crosswind gear.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
Paul,it's a good idea to check out Trade A Plane,Western Flyer,Southern Flyer,etc to see what people are asking for 170's. Key word here,though,is ASKING. I've been seeing a lot of 170's advertised for $50K. Not too many out there (with stock engines anyway) that would actually sell for that. I know of two that were offered in my area for around that price a year or two ago. Both were nice: fresh engine,paint,interior,etc I believe both went for closer to $42-44K. You should be able to get a very nice one for $40K.
Just from the brief description,I'd guess that the one you're looking at should probably go for the mid 20's. About a year ago,a friend of mine bought a very nice A model with a run-out (but still running good) engine for $25K. I know the last 3 owners before her personally,& it is a well-kept-up airplane. I thought she got a real good deal.
Anything you have to do to the airplane is gonna cost money. Probably a lot of money. For example,if ya want to go to Cleveland brakes,the kit is gonna cost around $800. By the time it is delivered,taxed,installed,& paperworked you'll probably have close to a thousand into them.
You're probably better off buying one that you can live with in the condition it's in,even if you have to pay more for it. But maybe the one you're looking at fits that description. They don't all have to have shiney paint & a lot of expensive mods. My ragwing is a bit of a rough specimen,but the price was right. One of the advantages is that I don't have to waste a lot of time polishing on it.....
Eric
Just from the brief description,I'd guess that the one you're looking at should probably go for the mid 20's. About a year ago,a friend of mine bought a very nice A model with a run-out (but still running good) engine for $25K. I know the last 3 owners before her personally,& it is a well-kept-up airplane. I thought she got a real good deal.
Anything you have to do to the airplane is gonna cost money. Probably a lot of money. For example,if ya want to go to Cleveland brakes,the kit is gonna cost around $800. By the time it is delivered,taxed,installed,& paperworked you'll probably have close to a thousand into them.
You're probably better off buying one that you can live with in the condition it's in,even if you have to pay more for it. But maybe the one you're looking at fits that description. They don't all have to have shiney paint & a lot of expensive mods. My ragwing is a bit of a rough specimen,but the price was right. One of the advantages is that I don't have to waste a lot of time polishing on it.....
Eric
WELKOME FREN
TP (TEE PEE) URE MOST ALL A GUD A SPEELER AS ME. SECUNT PLACE AIN'T TOO BAD FER A PILUT WANTIN TU GIT HISSELF A 170 THO.
OLE GEORGE STOLE SUMMA MY THUNNER BUT I SAY IF U GOT THE BUCKS, "PAY AS LITTLE AS YOU CAN" BUT "BUY THE SUKER"!
ANNUAL BEFORE THE PURCHASE THEN IF YOU BECOME OWNERE HAVE A BALL! KEEP IT STOCK IF POSSIBLE.
NOW SERIOUS STUFF - - -
1. IF YOU DON'T PLAN TO GO IFR - KEEP AS MANY OF THE OLD GYROS AND RADIOS AS POSSIBLE. YOU CAN FLY WITH A N-B & A/S MOST ALL WAYS. GET A GOOD GPS. A GOOD COM AND A GOOD MODE C TXP.
2.OLE CONNIES GO ON FOREVER WITH HARD USE. "NO USE" HURTS EM A LITTLE BUT FIRE THE IT UP AN RUN THE P---S OUT OF IT AN SHE WILL COME ROUND. IHAVE ONE THAT BURNS A QUART AN OUR SO I JUST LAND AFTER 2 HOURS AN POUR SOME IN.
3. YOU WILL BE THE TALK OF THE TOWN IF OU COME TO A FLY-IN OR CONVENTION WITH X-WIND GEAR (WITH OUT BENDIN SUMPIN) AN IF YOU ARE A GOOD PILOT YOU DON'T NEED CLEVELANDS (BUT THEY ARE REELY REELY GOOD).
4. STRIP OFF ALL A OLE PAINT AN POLISH WHAT HAS TO BE GOOD METAL UNNERNEATH. DO A GOOD JOB AN YOU'LL JAR OLE GAY HORN OUTA MOST ORIGINAL.
5. SPRUCE SELLS A 7:00X6 AND TIRE/TUBE SET FOR AROUND 230 BUCKS. A TAIL WHEEL TIRE AN TUBE ARE BOUT 50 BUCKS.
THE DEEP 6. HERE ARE SOME THINGS TO LOOK REAL GOOD AT DURING THE ANNUAL. CORRECT DOCUMENTATION ON ALL REPAIRS/ 337S/ AD NOTES AND SBs. GOOD LOGS, ACCURATE W/B, REALISTIC MAINTINENCE HISTORY, CORRECT A/W CERTIFICATE AND M.E.L.
ALL CONTROL CABLES, PULLEYS AND ROD-ENDS. FLAP ROLLERS AND TRACKS. CORROSION IN THE AFT CARRY THROUGH SPAR AT THE WING ATTACH POINTS. CORROSION IN TRAILING EDGE OF WING BAYS. CORROSION IN THE TAIL CONE AND TAIL SPRING MOUNT AREA. MOUSE NESTS AND DAMAGE TO WIRING IN ANY AREA OF THE CABIN ROOF OR BEHIND BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT WITH POSSIBLE CORROSION PRESENT. DIRT (MUD) DAUBBER DEPOSITS IN ALL ACCESSIBLE AREAS.
ENGINE MOUNT BUSHINGS AND FITTINGS. PROP SPINNER BACKING PLATE FOR KAKS.
GEAR BOX: FORE AND AFT BULKHEADS FOR KAKS AND DISTORTION. GEAR-LEG ATTACH BOLTS FOR RUST OR CORROSION. CASTINGS FOR INTEGRITY. BELLY SKIN (LOWER GEARBOX BULKHEAD) FOR DISTORTION. WHEELS, BEARINGS AND AXLES FOR INTEGRITY.
CABIN: SEAT TRAK RAILS FOR WORN HOLES. ALL GLASS (PLEX) AND DOOR SEALS. THE CORRECT REPAIR ON THAT AILERON.
CARB FOR ONE PIECE VENTURI. ALL RUBBER HOSES, SCAT AND FUEL LINES. FUEL CAP GASKETS. RUSTING OR CORROSION OF THE FILLER NECK AND INTEGRITY OF THE GASKETS. PLAN ON A NEW SET OF MAGS AND HARNESS. SLICKS ARE GOOD WITH THE HARNESS KIT INCLUDED.
I WOULD RATHER BE LUCKY THAN GOOD!
OLE GEORGE STOLE SUMMA MY THUNNER BUT I SAY IF U GOT THE BUCKS, "PAY AS LITTLE AS YOU CAN" BUT "BUY THE SUKER"!
ANNUAL BEFORE THE PURCHASE THEN IF YOU BECOME OWNERE HAVE A BALL! KEEP IT STOCK IF POSSIBLE.
NOW SERIOUS STUFF - - -
1. IF YOU DON'T PLAN TO GO IFR - KEEP AS MANY OF THE OLD GYROS AND RADIOS AS POSSIBLE. YOU CAN FLY WITH A N-B & A/S MOST ALL WAYS. GET A GOOD GPS. A GOOD COM AND A GOOD MODE C TXP.
2.OLE CONNIES GO ON FOREVER WITH HARD USE. "NO USE" HURTS EM A LITTLE BUT FIRE THE IT UP AN RUN THE P---S OUT OF IT AN SHE WILL COME ROUND. IHAVE ONE THAT BURNS A QUART AN OUR SO I JUST LAND AFTER 2 HOURS AN POUR SOME IN.
3. YOU WILL BE THE TALK OF THE TOWN IF OU COME TO A FLY-IN OR CONVENTION WITH X-WIND GEAR (WITH OUT BENDIN SUMPIN) AN IF YOU ARE A GOOD PILOT YOU DON'T NEED CLEVELANDS (BUT THEY ARE REELY REELY GOOD).
4. STRIP OFF ALL A OLE PAINT AN POLISH WHAT HAS TO BE GOOD METAL UNNERNEATH. DO A GOOD JOB AN YOU'LL JAR OLE GAY HORN OUTA MOST ORIGINAL.
5. SPRUCE SELLS A 7:00X6 AND TIRE/TUBE SET FOR AROUND 230 BUCKS. A TAIL WHEEL TIRE AN TUBE ARE BOUT 50 BUCKS.
THE DEEP 6. HERE ARE SOME THINGS TO LOOK REAL GOOD AT DURING THE ANNUAL. CORRECT DOCUMENTATION ON ALL REPAIRS/ 337S/ AD NOTES AND SBs. GOOD LOGS, ACCURATE W/B, REALISTIC MAINTINENCE HISTORY, CORRECT A/W CERTIFICATE AND M.E.L.
ALL CONTROL CABLES, PULLEYS AND ROD-ENDS. FLAP ROLLERS AND TRACKS. CORROSION IN THE AFT CARRY THROUGH SPAR AT THE WING ATTACH POINTS. CORROSION IN TRAILING EDGE OF WING BAYS. CORROSION IN THE TAIL CONE AND TAIL SPRING MOUNT AREA. MOUSE NESTS AND DAMAGE TO WIRING IN ANY AREA OF THE CABIN ROOF OR BEHIND BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT WITH POSSIBLE CORROSION PRESENT. DIRT (MUD) DAUBBER DEPOSITS IN ALL ACCESSIBLE AREAS.
ENGINE MOUNT BUSHINGS AND FITTINGS. PROP SPINNER BACKING PLATE FOR KAKS.
GEAR BOX: FORE AND AFT BULKHEADS FOR KAKS AND DISTORTION. GEAR-LEG ATTACH BOLTS FOR RUST OR CORROSION. CASTINGS FOR INTEGRITY. BELLY SKIN (LOWER GEARBOX BULKHEAD) FOR DISTORTION. WHEELS, BEARINGS AND AXLES FOR INTEGRITY.
CABIN: SEAT TRAK RAILS FOR WORN HOLES. ALL GLASS (PLEX) AND DOOR SEALS. THE CORRECT REPAIR ON THAT AILERON.
CARB FOR ONE PIECE VENTURI. ALL RUBBER HOSES, SCAT AND FUEL LINES. FUEL CAP GASKETS. RUSTING OR CORROSION OF THE FILLER NECK AND INTEGRITY OF THE GASKETS. PLAN ON A NEW SET OF MAGS AND HARNESS. SLICKS ARE GOOD WITH THE HARNESS KIT INCLUDED.
I WOULD RATHER BE LUCKY THAN GOOD!
OLE GAR SEZ - 4 Boats, 4 Planes, 4 houses. I've got to quit collecting!
Tanks, tanks alot folk's, Ive been looking here and there on priceing but every thing I have seen for the most part is in flying conidition. I see this plane as a project. I'm not afraid of work, but I would like to be fair with the owner and not put the old inclined plane fastener to my self. Haveing talked with the owner I think he wants too much for what he has. He hinted that he would like sumthing in the low 30's; an I would like to win the lottory. But I didn't want to insult the guy with a low ball offer. However haveing your input makes me think that what I'm willing to pay him for the plane is about right . I'm not looking for something to restore to museum quality, nore do I plan to. I'm going to just bum around VFR; a working man's plane if you will. Let me intraduce my self . My name is paul, TP is short for tall paul I'm 6'4" 256 pounds. You can call me what you like just don't call me late for supper. I think the 170 will fit me better that the 150's I trained in. I can truely say that I didn't strap into a 150, Istraped a 150 on. All jokes aside they are fun little planes. I solo'd the week that the flying banned was lifted. And I can relate to the posting on airspace restrictions posting's, I fly out of 2w6. When it warms up I'm going to get my tail wheel in a J3 cub. I'm a heavey excavator by trade an do all my repair's in house so I'm not afraid of tackling a plane project . Also I intend to put in my own grass stripand hanger. Got to go have ambulance call TP.
I must be okay cause, I haven't gotten a letter from the FAA.
TP, the evaluator I used was Trade A Plane's, found at http://www.tradeaplane.com/
Your seller can make his own input to see what his plane is worth in TAP's view.
It's important to know TAP's view: They are in the business of selling advertising. The most value they can convince a seller his plane is worth, the more likely he is to list with them. Translation: TAP's evaluator values airplanes on the high side.
If you want to convince him, Have your seller sit down with you and go thru the evaluator realistically inputting the repairs the airplane is likely to need, and he'll see it is worth about $15k.....IN THE EYES OF TRADE A PLANE!
If you actually were to buy the airplane at that price, you'd be denied the pleasure of it's use while you sink time and money into it. That should be worth something more for you in terms of discounted price, in my opinion.
A really nice, fresh-annual, airworthy 170 with low engine times and clean paint, interior, and decent radio/transponder with good paper trail would be worth $40-$55K depending upon mods/condition. (But I wouldn't sell mine for that except under pressure. Once you own one you won't let it go easily.)
Your seller can make his own input to see what his plane is worth in TAP's view.
It's important to know TAP's view: They are in the business of selling advertising. The most value they can convince a seller his plane is worth, the more likely he is to list with them. Translation: TAP's evaluator values airplanes on the high side.
If you want to convince him, Have your seller sit down with you and go thru the evaluator realistically inputting the repairs the airplane is likely to need, and he'll see it is worth about $15k.....IN THE EYES OF TRADE A PLANE!
If you actually were to buy the airplane at that price, you'd be denied the pleasure of it's use while you sink time and money into it. That should be worth something more for you in terms of discounted price, in my opinion.
A really nice, fresh-annual, airworthy 170 with low engine times and clean paint, interior, and decent radio/transponder with good paper trail would be worth $40-$55K depending upon mods/condition. (But I wouldn't sell mine for that except under pressure. Once you own one you won't let it go easily.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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Dave Clark
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:25 pm
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Kyle Wolfe
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:30 am
Welcome TP. My wife and I bought our 53 C170B last year. Besides all of the great advice I got from the IC170A, one of the best things I heard from my flying mentor was when he said "If you are afraid of hurting the owners feelings simply give them your offer and tell him (or her) that's all your budget can stand". That's one way to not offend the owner.
My 2 cents - buy as good an airplane (flying) that you can afford. Ruskin's law says that:
It is unwise to pay too much, but it is also unwise to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you lose a little money, that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought is incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.
Good luck on your decision.
Kyle
My 2 cents - buy as good an airplane (flying) that you can afford. Ruskin's law says that:
It is unwise to pay too much, but it is also unwise to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you lose a little money, that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought is incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.
Good luck on your decision.
Kyle