The journey begins. 170B project.
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Jazasaguma, ive been following your thread and enjoying it. Keep it coming.
If no one takes up your offer on the AN instruments, don't pitch them. They are valuable to the warbird crowd. I was just at Keystone Instruments in Lock Haven, PA about a week ago and they were telling me about how those AN gyro instruments are tanks and last forever, much longer than modern gyros, and that they are needed for warbird restorations. So if no one responds, i suggest you call Keystone. 570-748-7083.
If no one takes up your offer on the AN instruments, don't pitch them. They are valuable to the warbird crowd. I was just at Keystone Instruments in Lock Haven, PA about a week ago and they were telling me about how those AN gyro instruments are tanks and last forever, much longer than modern gyros, and that they are needed for warbird restorations. So if no one responds, i suggest you call Keystone. 570-748-7083.
Last edited by gfeher on Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gene Feher
Argyle (1C3), NY
'52 170B N2315D s/n 20467 C-145-2
Experimental J3 Cub Copy N7GW O-200
Argyle (1C3), NY
'52 170B N2315D s/n 20467 C-145-2
Experimental J3 Cub Copy N7GW O-200
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Well I like your trailer idea. I've seen a few versions but I like the simplicity of the angles attached at the back. Just thinking about it, would it not be safer to have a u channel of the same width rather than an 90 degree angle piece, so that the wheels couldn't splay out ? Most of the time, I've seen trailers that try to have the bulk of the weight forward and hence a means to retain the wheels at the front. What about the weight distribution when an engine is still hanging?
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
All great questions Jim. I had the same thoughts and I'll share why I chose this configuration. Yes.... I almost bolted the extensions on upside down to create a Channel.... but if you notice.... I mounted them lower than the bed so in effect.... they are locked in! I considered the possibility of splaying but will simply strap between the wheels to prevent that. As far the weight of the engine hanging off and causing the trailer to fishtail... I actually did a weight and balance with a 170 loaded, tail feathers removed, engine on, both wings flat and forward on the bed as well as the tail feathers and struts. The tongue weight of the trailer was just under 200 lbs and the center of mass of the loaded trailer was 2" behind the forward axle. So..... the load may look tail (engine) heavy, but in reality, it's almost a perfect weight distribution. Think of a loaded pontoon boat with the huge outboard motor hanging off the back. Kinda the same thing, only better/safer in my case. Now..... I actually ran the numbers with the plane facing forward and the tongue weight was horrendous!! I'd be more concerned about the trailer structure with the center of the mass of weight so far forward of the axles. I do have a plan in case I ever haul a nose dragger tho..... the axles bolt onto each frame rail with two bolts on each side. I'll simply drill new holes and move the axles forward a couple feet or three. Being that there are torsion axles with no leaf springs, it's a 30 minute operation. Thanks for your questions!!
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
skipping back to the horizontal stab posts. If you still need one, I have one complete and the other with all but the skins on the left half. I think they are pretty much corrosion free. The complete one had some work done around one inspection hole. It isn't in perfect shape - and is zinc chromated. PM me if you want more info.
OLE GAR SEZ - 4 Boats, 4 Planes, 4 houses. I've got to quit collecting!
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Yep. One would assume it is. One of my "other" hobbies is restoring Antique cars, and I like the OLD OLD cars. Pre-1925-26......most are wooden framework, skinned with sheet metal. Well....I bought a 1923 Franklin (yes....same company as the Franklin aircraft engine, but that came later), car was way ahead of its time. Air cooled straight 6. Wooden frame, aluminum body.....and committed to building a speedster to run the Great Race again. Well.....cutting off the old body that I assumed was solid (it's ok, it didn't "chop it" as it was half missing anyway) and to my surprise, I found that termites had already taken up residence and completely hollowed out the wooden structure!!!!! Why post this..... well.... there are some guys with 170s that may have other Antique airplanes with wooden spars! PLEASE check them out carefully during restoration!!
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Scary isn't it?? Now I can't speak to the appetites of termites as it applies to flavors of wood. This is Ash as opposed to Spruce....but I can only hope spruce leaves a bitter taste in their mouths!! Do they have mouths?? Lol. Anyway.... for anyone following my journey on the 170B resto.... I have Haven't thrown in the towel....I've just been in the process of converting my two car sweat box garage into a 3 car air conditioned dream shop/airplane restoration factory..... as anybody who's been to south Louisiana in summer can attest.... it's get HOT AND HUMID here, starting in April!!! So I bit the bullet and went all in so I can kick plane butt year-round! More plane pics and progress to follow soon!!
- brian.olson
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:04 pm
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Anxious to see more progress as your project continues to unfold.
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Back in the late '60s I heard a Bellanca salesman reassure a buyer who was skeptical of wooden structures by saying, "I'll trust termites to metal-fatigue anyday!"
Although wood is the original composite material.... that photo would take the steam out of the salesman's pitch, heh?
Although wood is the original composite material.... that photo would take the steam out of the salesman's pitch, heh?
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Yep. Now don't get me wrong.... I LOVE wood! I've had a cub with wooden spars, a Monocoupe with wooden spars, and even built a KR-2 with wooden spars. It's an amazing building medium. Does not fatigue. Easy to cut, shape, laminate and is cheap and plentiful. My intention was not to freak out anybody with those pictures..... simply to not underestimate Mother Nature and be aware of what "can" happen. I'm sure 99.9% of wood spar planes are fine.
- ghostflyer
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:06 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Ask american champion why they exchanged their wooden spared main planes for all metal main planes . I saw their nails becoming loose in the spars . Most Proctor aircraft [british built] have been grounded due to the glue breaking down . NAH!!Give me a spam can any day with corrosion , cracking , and metal fatigue any day . dont start me on Tupperware ware aircraft [plastic ].
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Question for uber knowledgeable Cessna guys...... will Cessna a set of 1960 172A wings bolt up and function normally on my 1955 170B? Would I have to modify or swap anything out? Is it a legal swap? Thanks in advance.
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Wing swap discussed here and in this video a Cessna Rep. talks about six things to consider when swapping wings.
Gary
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
In a simple nut shell, yes this is probably a bolt on swap. As the video points out, you should probably plan on using your old fuel tanks with fuel quantity system and fuel lines though you may find them the same.Jazasaguma wrote:Question for uber knowledgeable Cessna guys...... will Cessna a set of 1960 172A wings bolt up and function normally on my 1955 170B? Would I have to modify or swap anything out? Is it a legal swap? Thanks in advance.
Is it a legal swap? If you do it legally. This means you gather the information on the wings you want to use. Contact Cessna and though they will not approve the swap, they have in the past, issued letters of support for the swap. The 2014 video indicates they may still do this and this is in line with the older letters we have in our files. You take that evidence to the FAA for their approval on a 337.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: The journey begins. 170B project.
Bruce,
I agree that such a swap should be done in consultation with one's local FSDO but I doubt if it would require a 337 form. In this case one is replacing the same part number, not going to a later or different Cessna model wing. It is not a major alteration or repair which is what a 337 form would be used for. Might it not just require a logbook entry detailing the swap? One catch might be how the airframe logbook total time is calculated. Say you put an 8000 hour wing on a 3000 hour fuselage. Do you now include "wing total time" and "fuselage total time" in every logbook entry?
I agree that such a swap should be done in consultation with one's local FSDO but I doubt if it would require a 337 form. In this case one is replacing the same part number, not going to a later or different Cessna model wing. It is not a major alteration or repair which is what a 337 form would be used for. Might it not just require a logbook entry detailing the swap? One catch might be how the airframe logbook total time is calculated. Say you put an 8000 hour wing on a 3000 hour fuselage. Do you now include "wing total time" and "fuselage total time" in every logbook entry?
Gary