The International Cessna 170 Association

I'm trying to decide which model B.A.S. Harness to order and thought I'd solicit the input from those of you who already have them or have used them.

There are two basic types of buckles for lightplanes. The standard type, where the shoulder straps are permanently attached to the lap-belt hardware. BAS suggests they are easiest to use. And the utility type, where the shoulder straps are independently supplied with hardware thru which the male blade of one lapbelt slips. BAS suggests they are easiest with which to make emergency-egress and recommend them for seaplanes. (I should point out they also offer a rotary-buckle type, and I've used that type in other types. Feel free to make any comments you think important on that type as well, however I'm primarily only considering the other types.) Which have you used? And which do you find best for everyday use in a landplane. And why. Thanks.

We have the utility buckle and have no complaints. This might be one of those Chevy versus Ford discussions. They all do the job so which type do you like. The hard question for us is which back seat shoulder harnesses to get. That will be in another year or so. We have been very happy with the utility buckles.

I have the utility type and prefer them. I do think they will make it easier to extricate oneself in the event of an emergency. I personally don't like the permanently attached type as they tend to hang on the shoulder even during normal egress. I can't imagine hanging upside down from them trying to get out. The utility type is a little more confusing for non-aviator passengers to buckle but I've had no problem demonstrating them and insuring the passengers understand how they work. Unbuckling is intuitive and the pieces simply fall apart. No one ever has trouble getting out of them.

I have to admit that with the fixed-type of shoulder-harnesses I presently have.... it requires a bit of dual-instruction to each new pax to teach them how to dis-engage and re-buckle the assembly before leaving the cockpit.... otherwise the harness is left in a dis-organized condition and difficult to don for the next person unless the drill is followed. (I have them unlatch the lap-belts, then re-latch them beneath the thighs before exiting the aircraft. This leaves them in an assembled/latched condition, so the next person merely has to board and sit down, then reach beneath the legs to un-latch and re-latch the lap belts (since the shoulder harnesses are permanently-attached to the lap belts, similar to the basic set up BAS sells. I can see that this careful/detailed instruction period will continue to be necessary if the basic/standard set is ordered.)

The utility type could have a piece of Velcro sewn to the strap and to the fwd carry-through area....then they could be stored overhead such as in this pic. Either the utility or the Rotary types could benefit from this little trick.

I had the utility ones in 81D. (Not BAS but close enough) There is a small frustration when you reach behind to fish the shoulder straps and flip them around to have the top belt straight. Next, you need to fish your passenger's (happy wife, happy life...)

Which ones did I buy to instal in 95D? The Utility ones.

My reasoning was that the small frustration to put them on might some day pay off with ease of egress when it really matters. It also gives me a moment of pause when strapping in to think about what I'm doing.

I have the standard type, with the shoulder harness permanently attached to the lap belts.
I find them very easy to don, just reach around and behind to find the shoulder harness behind my head, and slide hand down the harness to find the lap belt end while pulling it around in front of your shoulder. It is easier than it sounds. Seems to be extremely easy for unfamiliar persons to figure out.
I find no issues unlatching and disembarking. But, I have never had to do it while upside down or underwater......

The only nuisance I have found is that they seem to be in the way when loading or unloading cargo from the rear seat area, or when climbing in and out of the fuselage during inspection and maintenance.

I am quite satisfied with them, but think I could easily adapt to either type.
I think if I ever wear them out, I would buy the same style.

I have the utility type. Fine for me, but a constant headache with passengers as they are not intuitive. When not attached they always seem to be in the way. That being said I like the flexibility offered.

It wasn't available when I got mine (I bought a used set and had them rewebbed), but if there is a rotary buckle option and it's not exorbitantly priced, that would be my strong recommendation. We have them in the helicopters in work and they are very easy to use, and very intuitive. In a previous life I drove race cars and used them there as well. I can tell you from experience that when you pop that latch they blow apart and the harness is gone, even when upside down.

However, the important decision has already been made. You are getting shoulder harnesses! Bravo! I replaced the fixed harnesses in my plane because I had to wear them loose to reach the flaps, making them more or less moot. Sounds minor, but lost a friend this way. Whatever decision you made won't be wrong as you've already made the right one.

DEM

I have the utility style. Installed them in 2005 and they work flawlessly. Really as they say a no brainer to get them if you can afford them but I guess there is a trade off in ease of assembly by passengers with the standard set. I find lifting my arm and reaching around my back to grab the shoulder straps a non issue. I think if I physically couldn't easily do it maybe I shouldn't be buzzing around.

My choice would be utility, rotary, and last only if I had to, the standard Cessna style.

Reason being, I think the shoulder hardness being attached allows added complication on emergency egress.

From an ease of use stand point the list would flip. Only the Cessna style requires the use of the shoulder harness cause you can just where the seat belt and there are only two sides you must mate to each other.

I have the utility style. I use the rotary style every day at work.

I just installed BAS's with the utility style buckles on my plane. I chose the utility style because i thought the the standard style would be in the way when not flying and when entering and exiting the cockpit. I liked the flexibility of the utility style. However, I was concerned about how easy it would be to reach around for the shoulder straps and how much they would interfere with loading the back. But now that I've used the utility style for a month or so, I'm very happy with my choice. Reaching around for them is not an issue - much easier than I thought it would be. (But one caveat: I'm tall so my seat is pretty far back. On the other hand, shorter passengers have not had any trouble grabbing them either, as far as I can tell.) And although I just let the shoulder straps hang down in the back when I'm not flying, I can easily move them aside when loading the back, or put the ends in the pockets on my front seat backs. Again, it hasn't really been an issue for me. However, if you have kids that ride in the back seats, you'll need to stow the shoulder straps. George, the shoulder straps already come with Velcro strips pre-installed. You just need to attach the mating strips they supply to your plane. (You could also make a keeper attached to one of the screws holding the verticle trim piece/cover behind the aft door post to stow the shoulder straps on the side next to that trim piece/cover)

Installation of the BAS harnesses was pretty simple and straightforward. But you will need an assistant, and one of you will need pretty small fingers as the nuts holding the mounting braket are small and the clearance tight. My fingers were too big, so my assistant got the more difficult task of reaching up in the cabin and securing the nuts. My only recommendation on installation is that when you cut the headliner for the reel opening at the end of the installation, cut the opening a good bit smaller than the instructions say. Then after fitting the cover plate, trim the opening larger to the correct size. You may need to go back and forth fitting the cover plate and trimming a few times. The problem with cutting the opening to the full size specified in the instructions is that it is easy to be slightly off when locating the hole in the headliner, no matter how closely you follow the instructions. As the dimensions in the instructions are for the final hole size, if you locate the hole slightly off to one side, the cover plate might not completely cover the edge of the hole. If you cut the hole smaller than specified, you can check whether you have accurately located it and then trim it as necessary to the final size. Gives you more wiggle room.

Good point Gene cutting the hole in the right spot is the hardest part of the install.

VERY helpful post, Gene! Thank you! After considering the rotary buckles for a moment I think I've decided against them in favor of the utility types. I have used the rotary types at work but those shoulder straps usually recoiled into the seat back...not the overhead...so enroute comfort of releasing the shoulder straps would not be as helpful in a Cessna. Flying around with them "dangling" doesn't appeal to me.

Thanks again.

I just put the utility style in my plane. So far I am really happy with them. I also put in a new headliner so cutting the holes was easy. I haven't installed the Velcro strips yet but will get around to that soon. For now I have just been letting them dangle behind the seat.

I installed the utility harness in my 170A because I thought they would make it easier for loading cargo in the back. I fly a lot of Pilots and Paws flights so I wanted to be able to move the shoulder straps out of the way. So far they are working great and really like them. Installing the nut plate in the carry through spar on the 170A will test your patience to no end. Also it took me several hour to get the nerve up to cut the hole in my headliner, it's the nicest part of my plane. I used a hot knife for the headliner and it worked well.

I solved the headliner issue. I don't have a headliner installed though Leroy and I bought a new one over 4 years ago.

Here is another tip to using the utility belts. Many are frustrated as they always seem to pull the left belt around their right shoulder and visa versa. I never have this problem. I learned that, in my case, the top belt as it is sewn at the Y is the left belt. Figure out which one is yours and when you reach back grab the Y and feel and select the top belt and pull it over the appropriate shoulder for your case.