Ski Flying Help Needed

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N170GA
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am

Ski Flying Help Needed

Post by N170GA »

Hey you ski flyers out there!

I'm very short on ski flying experience, and I'm having a little trouble with getting turned around in the width of the grass strip (about 50'). The locals have been coaching me about stick forward, full aileron, blast of power to move the tail, etc. I still have to get out and pull the tail around more than I'd like. My question is...are there any adjustments to the aircraft or tailwheel assembly that will improve turning on skis? I thought that heavier tension on the springs that might help, or do you leave everything the same as for wheel flying? What about the tailwheel "break point" for castering? Will a tailwheel that "breaks loose" easier help, or just make it uncontrollable? I'd be interested in any thoughts on the subject.
I have a pretty forward CG due to the heavier O-360/ CS combo. I'm using the Federal AWB2500 wheel skis. I've reduced my weight as much as possible in the baggage/rear seat areas to help get the tail up faster. It seems that my speed builds up so fast during the burst of power that before I know it, I'm headed for the tall grass! :? Will pulsing the power help keep the speed down? One of the local guys commented "cessnas don't turn very well". I feel that it's probably 99% poor technique and 1% other reasons! Any help?

Thanks in advance,

N170GA
Neil
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Roesbery
Posts: 302
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:34 am

Post by Roesbery »

The way I used to turn in a narrow space was to lift the left ski and pivot on the tire. Sometimes I'd have to get out and pull down on the left wing strut to keep the right ski from lifting first. Differing snow conditions will cause variations in how it works. Hard pack you lower the tire and use braking, soft powder, the tire settling into the snow will cause the plane to pivot, heavy soft snow can mean getting out and kicking the pivoting ski around maybe a couple times in a turn and or kicking snow out of the way. A bit tough on the gear leg at times so use caution and you should be ok. Place I used to live had a 800 foot wheel strip and I made a 1400 foot ski strip between trees and brush, too rough for wheels but with snow was usable, The turn around was a bit narrow, but to get the length had to use it.
Bill Rusk
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 11:19 pm

Post by Bill Rusk »

Neil

You may have your percentages a bit off. Ski planes don't turn like wheel planes no matter what your technique. Be careful when blasting the tail around as when it comes down or hits a drift it is putting a large side load on the fuselage. It is almost 100% common to see Alaska skiplanes with wrinkles in the skin in the tail area. Also a tight turn will put a lot of side load on the gear/axles. I don't think messing with the tailwheel will have much impact on your turns. I've heard that a tailski can help at times but I've not tried it yet so my expertise is lacking in that area.
I would say its tough to power one around in much less than a 150 ft radius without help, ie getting out and pushing, holding etc. FE Potts book "guide to Bush Flying" has a couple of good chapters on the subject but in general you will find info on ski flying very sparse. Go to "treetop flyers" web site. It is a skiplane dedicated web site.
Welcome to some of the best flying out there.

Bill

Bill
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mit
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:54 am

Post by mit »

It is comon Problem with the 170. I have to get out and push the tail a lot.
This is a towered airport and most of the controller's know whats going on. The scareiest part about ski Flying is taxing around 150,000$$$$$ airplanes. If I ding mine its not that big a deal; but If I hit some lawyer's 185 god save me from the jailhouse! I don't have insurance. Just make sure your tail wheel support bearing is parallel with the ground if its not,is your tail spring sagging? In really deep snow I have put on the tail ski that wag aero use to sell, I bought it 20 years ago and have only used it about 3 times. It is a wheel penitration ski. I have been worried about it hanging up on brush,not usally a problem if there is a lot of snow but, if you land on snow covered brush and bust thru you may stop real fast. Also same type of problem with you float guys and the long water rudder bar I would hate to have it get hung up on something under the snow so I take it off when I go to skis. I have left it on and know lots of people do but I feel alittle better when I know its gone. I have owned 2 170's and had both on skis. My first one was a 48, I never took any ski insturction just got in and went. But I had a lot of coaching before I did that. Now I have a 54 B. Back to the tail wheel if you could not steer at all by just using rudder on wheels with out brakeing you might want to look at it closer, Im not talking about making 90 degree turns. Ski flying is fun and boy do you have performance at 10 below! I have left mine on floats for the last three winters, maybe next winter I will go back on skis.
Tim
BloomerJohn
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 3:28 pm

Post by BloomerJohn »

I have a 48 w/ c145 and skis. Flaps help unload the tail for turns. Wheel-skis will in fact drag more than straight skis so your turns will be larger. I end up getting out a lot and turning using the BAS handles. Rule #3 of winter ski flying in our hanger says always ski-fly with a wiry strong and willing passenger who will assist when needed.
John
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ak2711c
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:29 am

Post by ak2711c »

It has been said that ski flying is a two person job. You have the pusher and the blaster. The pusher ether pushes on the tail or a wing strut while the blaster (the pilot) blasts the pusher with prop blast. It is much more fun to be the blaster. :lol: At -10 the pusher tends to get a bit cold. 170's do have exceptionally poor tail wheel steering though so you may want to find yourself an unwitting pusher to invite along with you. :roll: Good luck!
Shawn
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