The International Cessna 170 Association

Hi All
Has anyone installed the Appareo Stratus ESG transponder yet?
If so are you happy and what was the labor time you were charged.
I might want to do this now before the rush and I am in a 1 year line.

Dick Bryant
N2704C
KPYM

That's the one I plan to install, but I can't pull the trigger until I get my airplane back from rebuild. A friend of mine has been quoted $3000 from one shop, and $600 labor from another to install it in his C-140. I'm pretty sure I know which one he's going to use...

$600.00 to install a transponder? How many hours did they quote?

Being four years away, I'm still holding off.
Four years is two life times in software technologies.

I think you'll see a massive drop in price as new units come on the market in the last two years.

And we might also see a massive issuance of AD notes against a few of them. I plan to let someone else work out the bugs first.

bagarre wrote:$600.00 to install a transponder? How many hours did they quote?

Being four years away, I'm still holding off.
Four years is two life times in software technologies.

I think you'll see a massive drop in price as new units come on the market in the last two years.

Dave, more like 3 years to (just for planning purposes). Remember it is required Jan. 1,2020 if you even need it at all.

Yes. Three years. I'm used to saying four years (been saying it for the last year)

Either way, I think we will see tremendous pressure from the industry to provide affordable and simple units to satisfy the mandate.

It was only a few years ago that these boxes were 5 or 6 grand and now they are 3. My bet is in another year, they will be 2 grand.

But, you don't want to be the last one off the ship. In the last year, they might not be able to make them fast enough.

bagarre wrote:But, you don't want to be the last one off the ship. In the last year, they might not be able to make them fast enough.

This is exactly it. This, and avionics shops' capacity to install them. The airplanes I fly for work are both getting done soon; one in works now and the other getting a full panel retrofit in a couple months to include ADS-B. Good luck to those who wait!

KS170A wrote:

bagarre wrote:But, you don't want to be the last one off the ship. In the last year, they might not be able to make them fast enough.

This is exactly it. This, and avionics shops' capacity to install them. The airplanes I fly for work are both getting done soon; one in works now and the other getting a full panel retrofit in a couple months to include ADS-B. Good luck to those who wait!

I'm hearing the same from the shop I go to. I think now the earliest you can get on their calendar is early spring next year. I'm surrounded by a Class B & 2 Class C so I need the ADSB.

I don't think availability of the hardware is going to be the issue, but getting in line for installation very well could be. At 45G. I'm based just inside the 30-mile Mode-C veil centered on KDTW, so to avoid a phone call every time I want to fly, I'm going to schedule my installation just a soon as '98C re-enters Michigan, AND take advantage of the FAA rebate. I already have ADSB-in on my iPad/Stratus 2 and have already seen and avoided traffic on it NOT called out on flight following, and I think that advantage will on improve with ADSB-out.

I fly in class B airspace....never and class C maybe once a year if that. I am way behind the knowledge curve on this ADS-B stuff.

Miles,
What's the FAA rebate you speak of?

I am sure I can google it and get some basic info maybe more but anyone willing to give me a short spill would be appreciated. Is it only in class B and C airspace that it is required. Is it just the OUT that is required in this airspace?

Thanks,
Justin

Here are 2 web sites about ADSB. One is the FAA and I think the Wikipedia gives more info about it.
Jim

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic ... _broadcast

juredd1 wrote:I fly in class B airspace....never and class C maybe once a year if that. I am way behind the knowledge curve on this ADS-B stuff.

Miles,
What's the FAA rebate you speak of?

I am sure I can google it and get some basic info maybe more but anyone willing to give me a short spill would be appreciated. Is it only in class B and C airspace that it is required. Is it just the OUT that is required in this airspace?

Thanks,
Justin

juredd1 wrote:I fly in class B airspace....never and class C maybe once a year if that. I am way behind the knowledge curve on this ADS-B stuff.

Miles,
What's the FAA rebate you speak of?

I am sure I can google it and get some basic info maybe more but anyone willing to give me a short spill would be appreciated. Is it only in class B and C airspace that it is required. Is it just the OUT that is required in this airspace?

Thanks,
Justin

A very short spill is that ADSB-out will be required in airspace that currently requires a transponder. See https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/a ... uirements/. ADSB-in is not required, but it's pretty nice.

There are two types of ADSB equipment, 1090ES transponder-based, and 978 UAT. Both perform the same basic function, but use different frequencies. 1090ES is required for operation above 18000 feet and costs more than 978 UAT. Both types require position information from an approved WAAS GPS, either built into the ADSB equipment or fed from an installed GPS navigator. This really drives up the cost for those of us without a GPS. There's a confusing variety of ADSB equipment offered for sale, so lots of homework is required.

The rebate is an FAA program intended to stimulate installation of ADSB equipment by giving $500 back when you install. Relatively few airplanes have complied with the ADSB requirement, and FAA is afraid that most of the GA fleet will be grounded for lack of equipment on Jan 1, 2020.

DaveF wrote:Both types require position information from an approved WAAS GPS, either built into the ADSB equipment or fed from an installed GPS navigator. This really drives up the cost for those of us without a GPS.

I disagree with this statement. Look at the Stratus ESG by Appareo. It has it's own WAAS GPS and is still about the cheapest unit out there (that I've seen, anyway). It is what I plan to install. You could spend a $500 more and get the receiver and link it to an iPad and receive the benefits of ADS-B in on your device.

Either way, getting an installation time is going to be the challenge and will only get worse as 2020 nears.

Units with built-on GPS are generally more expensive than those without. But you're right I overstated the degree to which that's true.

I'm planning to install an Appareo ESG because I need a new transponder so I'm spending that money already. And I'm using a Stratus 2S already so they'll work together.

My Swift is in the shop now, getting the Appareo ESG installed. That seemed to be the cheapest option because I could reuse my existing transponder antenna with new RG400 coax, but I had to install an external GPS antenna. (I don't have a certified GPS in the plane.) The ESG fits in the same space as my old KT76A transponder -- the new tray is an exact replacement. It was recommended to buy a new serial encoder, so I did that. I've since heard that the ESG doesn't work with some of the legacy encoders.

A Cherokee owner who's a little bit ahead of me has gotten his ESG certified for the rebate. It took him three tries, partly because the installer didn't configure it correctly in all details. In the process, he found out that there's a taxi speed threshold in the ESG that is set too low, and if it's receiving power you have to taxi at a crawl or the thing will think you're flying and start reporting. That screws up the tower's display, I guess. Appareo will have a software update to fix this at some point.