The International Cessna 170 Association

I have purchased a baggage door/frame and the STC from Del-Air. I'm looking for anyone in Southern MN that has installed one or who they had install it, for advice and view their installation.


Thanks,

Tony

There are plenty of photos and information in the pages of the forum. One of the members that has a red airplane has posted photos of a baggage installation. I have installed 2 doors ,and one was on a early 172 that didn't have a door. BUT my 170A doesn't have a door yet. Have been looking around for a door and cutout but some prices are crazy. My clients have turned up with their own doors and cutouts. It takes [me] about 60 hrs total labour. The best tip is read the STC many times and discuss with some that knows what he is talking about . I was very privileged to talk to Harry Delicker, and measure it least 3 times before cutting. I mads a cardboard cutout and door and pasted them on the aircraft to get the perfect position. And yes some of the rivets on the fuselage cutout do not line up with the fuse large rivets . When this happened and some rivets were a half hole out or less I drilled out to the next size up.

I have bought and sold several baggage doors for about $400. Labor has never taken as much time as above, but some guys seem to be able to do one a good deal faster than others. The first one is always a lot slower going. If you're farming out the job, it would be financially prudent to find someone who has done the job before.

years ago I bought one from white industries salvage and got 1/4 of the fuselage. I had to drill the door and supports from the part and kept the skins that you could cleco to your plane and scribe the cutout and then cut inside that and then trim. I think Ed Booth or Bob Coats has them--Ed may step in here and let you know. If he has them you are welcome to use them-just keep track so someone else can use them later. If Bob has them it will be awhile as he is in Fl. Ron

I got the door and frame from a local repair shop, not a salvage yard. They did not want to cut the bulkheads. Maybe I can convince them to cut out just the skins around the door. If that does not work, I will ask Ed or Ron.

Thanks

1692D wrote:I got the door and frame from a local repair shop, not a salvage yard. They did not want to cut the bulkheads. Maybe I can convince them to cut out just the skins around the door. If that does not work, I will ask Ed or Ron.

Thanks

Bob Coats has the template skins Ron is talking about. I used them when installing Bobs door a couple years ago. However you can make your own templates using stiff poster board on a 170 or early 172. With the poster board taped to the side of the fuselage, you can press the outline of the rivets and the door into the poster board and then line them up on your plane. When I first did mine, I checked three different planes, they are not all exactly alike, but are close. Just make sure when you do it measure two or three times...go away then come back and measure again. When you have everything measured correctly, take a screw driver and Stab it right in the middle. Then say, "well I got to fix that"

Are 170s and 172s built so accurately that you can template a door hole like that and expect it to line up perfectly?

I havent done my baggage door yet but, I was under the impression that the final fit of the door would be a tedious check, trim, check, trim endeavor.
It would be a shame to cut a hole, expecting things to line up only to discover you're 3 or 4mm off in the gap.
But, then again, they'd at least match the rest of the doors in fitment

edbooth wrote:

1692D wrote:...take a screw driver and Stab it right in the middle. Then say, "well I got to fix that"

My screwdriver was the size and shape of a Cherokee 140. If that accident hadn't happened, I'm fairly sure that the baggage door I bought from blueldr however many years ago would still be in the hangar collecting dust...

Starting to look like a NEW 170:)

bagarre wrote:Are 170s and 172s built so accurately that you can template a door hole like that and expect it to line up perfectly?

I havent done my baggage door yet but, I was under the impression that the final fit of the door would be a tedious check, trim, check, trim endeavor.
It would be a shame to cut a hole, expecting things to line up only to discover you're 3 or 4mm off in the gap.
But, then again, they'd at least match the rest of the doors in fitment

They are enough alike that a usable template can be made. That's the way I've done two of them and they came out just fine. Just cut the initial hole way undersized then sneak up on the final fit slowly with various files. It's really hard to replace stuff you cut off . If you do a careful installation, I.e. Tape the areas your going to be cutting and drilling, it can be done without even messing up your paint job. Just Have to carefully paint the additional rivets with a small brush.

edbooth wrote:Just cut the initial hole way undersized then sneak up on the final fit slowly with various files. It's really hard to replace stuff you cut off . If you do a careful installation, I.e. Tape the areas your going to be cutting and drilling, it can be done without even messing up your paint job. Just Have to carefully paint the additional rivets with a small brush.

OK I think we just said the same thing.
What I thought I was reading is that folks were making a template from another airplane and cutting the hole_to_size of that template.

Using it as a rough opening and carefully trimming to fit the door as installed is what I just read - which makes much more sense to me.

But for the rough opening, you could also use the baggage door frame and cut from the inside. (initial rough opening) and trim to fit.
It might be more trimming as the hole will be an inch or so too small but, better a hole too small than too big.

At the present time I am doing the SIDS inspection , it,s mandatory in this country due to a knee jerk reaction of CASA. But again I am motivated enough to buy a door and cutout and install it while the aircraft is in the shed. So the big search will be on for a door and cutout. At least it will be a little quicker than the last 2 as no paint matching will be be done .

ghostflyer wrote:... And yes some of the rivets on the fuselage cutout do not line up with the fuse large rivets . When this happened and some rivets were a half hole out or less I drilled out to the next size up.

I ended up getting what I thought was a good deal online on a baggage door and surrounding skin/frame. Now this is what I find along station 108, the bulkhead at the rear of the door. That "good deal" feeling is fading.So I’m thinking, “Was Cessna craftsmanship this bad in the ‘50s? I thought it only sunk this low in the ‘70s.” Those rivets are AD470-5s not AD470-4s like the C-170 has at that station. Hmm, that’s curious. So I look at the NTSB report for the donor aircraft. Sure enough, “damage-substantial” back in 1964. So I’m looking for suggestions on a fix from you sheetmetal gurus. I thought of cutting off the outward facing half of the angle and then fabricating a new angle which would be riveted to the remaining part of the rear door frame. But there is a joggle in that frame so that would be way too much work. Add -4 rivets between holes? Get a new frame piece? Thanks in advance for any helpful advice. (“You dummy, why did you buy that without noticing the gubbered up row of rivets?” is not helpful advice.)

That photo is not enough to get so depressed that you take on the drink, there,s a fuselage bulkhead next door [excuse the pun , but I meant within a inch at the most ]that would takes most of the stress and strains of flight. Mine looks very similar and yes I was concerned, but that door frame is only a cutout for the door. The most important thing is to replace all the aircraft rivet line exactly and if the door surround is not exact with the aircraft rivet line well it’s not a big issue. As previously stated I went a rivet hole size up if the rivets were slightly over lapping . Note.. the horizontal supports of the door frame are very important part of the structure and must be attached correctly as per STC. Do not be hesitant in lifting[deriveting ] the floor and peeling it back . When I did this found a previous owner had fitted some of the sea plane structure .
My problem is that I bought my STC from Harry and he pocketed the cash and gave me a receipt later But never got around to giving me all the paper work . I was left out on a limb . So after a engineer order and drawings was made through a [DER] ,I fitted the door , it was only later I had access to harry,s paper work and comparison that we slightly over engineered it but this always best when that this happens.
I was paranoid about the door fitting the contour of the fuselage,well have a look at the new Cessna 182,s about that subject and I am very pleased with my handi work.
Please do not forget to grease the hinge door pins ,most are never done and wear does occur after time plus corrosion. My cargo door is totally bonded and is Not riveted together .

PLEASE NOTE. ALL MY POSTS ARE FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY . please reference the appropriate manuals and comply with the FAA rules even when they are very painful.

This is the best mod I have done to my aircraft , it makes life so easy when loading up.

n2582d wrote:

ghostflyer wrote:... And yes some of the rivets on the fuselage cutout do not line up with the fuse large rivets . When this happened and some rivets were a half hole out or less I drilled out to the next size up.

I ended up getting what I thought was a good deal online on a baggage door and surrounding skin/frame. Now this is what I find along station 108, the bulkhead at the rear of the door. That "good deal" feeling is fading.

BDBF2B55-2ABB-4E26-A831-402BE3FB2400.jpeg

So I’m thinking, “Was Cessna craftsmanship this bad in the ‘50s? I thought it only sunk this low in the ‘70s.” Those rivets are AD470-5s not AD470-4s like the C-170 has at that station. Hmm, that’s curious. So I look at the NTSB report for the donor aircraft. Sure enough, “damage-substantial” back in 1964. So I’m looking for suggestions on a fix from you sheetmetal gurus. I thought of cutting off the outward facing half of the angle and then fabricating a new angle which would be riveted to the remaining part of the rear door frame. But there is a joggle in that frame so that would be way too much work. Add -4 rivets between holes? Get a new frame piece? Thanks in advance for any helpful advice. (“You dummy, why did you buy that without noticing the gubbered up row of rivets?” is not helpful advice.)

Gary, this is not a problem. you will need to make rivet strips to rivet the frame in. It is not a problem really. Doug