The International Cessna 170 Association

Do we have an area or a post that has pics of original paint layouts, especially for a 52?

Never mind, George has posted the info in the MX library

"Disregard" is the ATC-Instruction I love the most (and am best-qualified of completing.)

Along with the original paint schemes, do we have modern paint codes for the colors?

bagarre wrote:Along with the original paint schemes, do we have modern paint codes for the colors?

For some, yes. I am not sure for Serge blue...if 95D has not yet been touched up, perhaps you can have a part scanned.

Ryan Smith wrote:

bagarre wrote:Along with the original paint schemes, do we have modern paint codes for the colors?

For some, yes. I am not sure for Serge blue...if 95D has not yet been touched up, perhaps you can have a part scanned.

Actually no we don't have any modern codes. We have asked for them from anyone who has matched the colors but we have never received any.

I dont know if 95D has been touched up or not and havent tried to determine just yet.
The interior was replaced with a near replica with logbook entries (right patterns but not original fabrics). No log book entries for the paint which leads me to think it's original...only cuz the logs are fairly complete and the plane only has 1,900 hours TT.

The blue on the panel is original. The tan is not.

I plan to get color codes for anything I find that I feel is original paint.
I'll also document the scheme as best I can but I think we already have '52 schemes.

Color "Codes" are a unique term. The numbers used by Cessna in contemporary use are no longer available...although they are listed in the introductory section of the Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC).

Codes are also proprietary and dependent upon paint mfr'r and are variable even by lot-number. The original paints used by Cessna are no longer available. (Courtalds Aerospace is the surviving company of many original tints such as "Insignia Red", a tint defined by the U.S. Air Corp for displaying the red ball in the national insignia on the sides of military airplanes. U.S. Paint also provided some paints in the 1950s, but those are no longer available.)

The best method to match original paint is to peel back a panel or remove upholstery and locate a spot of old, unexposed paint and take it to your paint supplier and have them computer-match it. You will then have a "code".... for that particular brand of paint. You will have the pleasure of doing it all over again when you change paint mfr'r, supplier, and lot number.

There was original red trim paint on 15D under the vertical stab when it was dissembled for restoration. However, I did not have it matched since it was not the color I wanted for the new paint job. That would be a likely place to look for virgin factory paint although hard to take to the paint store.

I understand that each manufacturer has their own color codes.

I was wondering if anyone has already matched reliable samples to a modern paint manufacturer code already.
So, if someone didnt have an original sample (example, 81D has been completely stripped are repainted), they could still order from a local paint shop a reliable match.

No two paints perfectly match. Even Cessna would have had variations from batch to batch and what the weather was that day.
You can't order Cessna Serge Blue 6600 today but you can order a modern equivalent in whatever type of paint you want if you have a modern code that can be cross matched.

I remember a while back someone posted an equivalent for the Gull Gray and I think Lima Tan (or was it New Lima Tan ( or was it Trooper Tan) ) ...

Is Insignia Red 5500 lighter or darker than Deep Red 27-10024 and does that mean the '54s are faster or slower than the '53s and prior?

EDIT:
I found the post about the few color codes
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... 4&start=45

That links to the LAST page of the post. The first page states:
"All the 170's left the factory with natural aluminum with accent striping. No airplanes were completely painted. The paint color numbers are probably not directly applicable to many particular paint products manufactured today.

The original paint colors were:

1948, 1949, 1950, 1951,
Exterior, Insignia Red or Cessna Metallic Green
Interior, Silver French Gray
Int. Trim, Dark India or Cessna Blue Green

1952
Exterior, Insignia Red (5500) or Serge Blue (6600)
Interior, Lima Tan (6600)
Int. Trim, Matador Red (6600) or Serge Blue (6600)

1953
Exterior, Insignia Red (5500) or Serge Blue (6600)
Interior, New Lima Tan (23-8642)
Int. Trim, New Lima Tan (23-8642)

1954
Exterior, Deep Red (27-10023) or Deep Blue (27-10024)
Interior, Trooper Tan (E23-9691)
Int. Trim Victoria Maroon (D23-10020) or Yosemite Blue (E23-10019)

1955 (Note the use also of "Codes", see Finish/Trim Data Plate info below.)
Exterior, Welsh Green (27-11457)(Code A) or Cypria Metallic Red (27-10892)(Code B) or Chartreuse (27-11611)(Code F) or Turquoise (27-11610)(Code G)
Interior, Rust & Tan (Code 2) or Blue & Grey (Code 3)
Int. Trim, Trooper Tan (E23-9691)(Code C) or Autumn Rust (27-10894) (Code D) or Yosemite Blue (E23-10019)(Code E)

1956
Exterior, Parchment White (27-12098) (Code A) or Scandia Blue (27-12551)(Code B) or Strato Blue (27-12552)(Code C) or Cardinal Red (27-13601)(Code D) or Burma Gold (27-12098)(Code E)
Interior, Blue & Ivory (Code 2) or Red & Ivory (Code 3)
Int. Trim, Shadow Blue (27-12319)(Code F) or Black (Gloss) (27-515)(Code G) or Parchment White (27-12098)(Code H)


All Landing Gear springs (main and tail) as well as exposed end-ribs and wing flap fairing doublers were painted Gull Gray Enamel (95-9375) Note: This corresponds to DuPont Imron Gull Gray (55137U). Insignia Red corresponds to Courtalds Aerospace Insignia Red (11136). Interior Black (gloss) corresponds to DuPont Imron Black (99U). Lima Tan corresponds to Centari Brown ((C8271A), New Lima Tan corresponds to Ford Cordova Brown (M) or Dupli-Color Cordova Brown (T135).

In 1955 and 1956 Cessna used Finish and Trim data-plates which are found on the rear doorpost directly beneath the M.A.A. name/data plate. This Finish/Trim plate indicates the aircraft's original exterior paint color, upholstery scheme and interior trim colors.
Example: 5 - A - 2 - CD
The 5 indicates model 1955, the A indicates Welsh Green Exterior Color, the 2 indicates Rust & Tan Upholstery and the CD indicates Trooper Tan & Autumn Rust Interrior Trim.

Cessna was especially diligent in issuing "process specification" on paint and interior treatments. I have a copy of the 1953 Process Specification, "Painting Specification for Commercial Model Airplanes" which includes the 170 B-model. It says:

"A. Use Intended
A-1. This specification covers the standard color schemes of all commercial models. New color schemes shall be incorporated in this specification prior to being placed in production. Exceptions shall be governed by Engineering drawings. (There were no exceptions in the sense of deviations from standard schemes/colors. This note on exceptions pertains to small details not specifically addressed in the document.)
A-2. Airplanes requiring a special color scheme shall not be considered to be within the scope of this specification. (In other words, no special paint schemes were issued directly from Cessna.)

B. Method of Application
B-1. Exterior enamel shall be applied according to the procedure specified in Cessna Specification 109-2, Enamel, Exterior Airplane, Application of, or Cessna Specification 109-4, Enamel, Baking, Exterior Enamel, Application of.
B-2. Lacquer shall be applied per Cessna Specification 109-7. (Lacquer was applied to magnesium wheel halves.)

C. 1953 Model 170B
C-1a. The spinner, exterior stripes and markings, as well as other exterior painted surfaces not specified in Section C-3 below, shall be painted Insignia Red equivalent to Enmar 5500, or Cessna Serge Blue, equivalent to Shade K 8118.
C-2. Interior Colors.
C-2a. All interior parts here designated shall be painted Cessna Lima Tan, equivalent to K 9337, Shade K 8642. These parts include all interior molding, window trim, door posts, glove compartment door, stationary instrument panel, instrument panel cover, radio face panels, blank instrument hole covers, microphone bracket, rudder pedal assemblies, flap handle, selector valve plate, exposed metal portion of seats, tab wheel housing, ash tray housings, and baggage shelf. Those parts not painted include the seat rails, scuff plates, plated parts, fasteners, buffed aluminum parts, or parts painted other specified colors.
C-3. Baked Enamel Color.
C-3a. Gull Grey #125 Baking Enamel shall be used on the main landing gear spring (Note this is a different number than that listed in their specification tables above, probably an internal stocking number. ), tail wheel springs, steps, elevator torque tubes, elevator push-pull tube, and the steel elevator hinge bracket.
C-4. Miscellaneous Colors.
C-4A. The engine mount shall be painted black.
C-4b. All magnesium parts not covered above shall be painted with aluminum lacquer except the instrument panel."

Hope this helped everyone."

I think someone stated that they used Duplicolor
to paint their landing gear
what color would be the best match?
thanks
iowa