FAA Registration Information

[Greg Bockelman]

Been perusing the FAA registration site looking at who owns 170s and I have a question. Under the registration heading, I noticed that some have been revoked, some have expired and some say "none". I can understand what expired is, but what does it mean if one has been revoked or if it says "none"?

Inquiring minds and all.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Greg, In the past a registration was good until surrendered or revoked. Every three years under that system the FAA sent a post card to the address of record asking if there were any changes. If there were no changes you disregarded the card. Of course lots of folks disregarded the card even when there were changes and the FAA did not have a current address which also is contrary to FAR. Of course the post card with the wrong address was not delivered and returned to the FAA and the FAA assumed it to be wrong and in question and they marked the file accordingly but I forget the exact term they applied. But the file remained and the registration remained in limbo.

About 3 years ago the TSA (or some other gov. agency) charged with keeping us safe from terrorists with airplanes decided they needed to know absolutely who owned airplanes and where they could be located. Because after all terrorist can usually be found at there address of record. The law was changed and we now have to reregister our airplanes every 3 years. Under this system if the FAA doesn't hear from you no matter what (with your $5) your registration is in question. Now it is just coming to the end of the first 3 years and reregistration was phased in so there are still some aircraft that have not had to reregister.

So what that means is that when you look at the records you will see a mix of two different systems depending on what has been done with that particular registration record. You will see nothing which doesn't actually mean the record is OK. You will see sale pending because when the FAA catches wind the record is changing they mark it. You will see expired if the aircraft registration has expired under the new law. You will see revoked, surrendered and something to indicate the record is in question if the FAA got a card back under the old system.

Feeling safer? I certainly am.

Besides more government working harder at a higher cost and achieving less (my opinion), the big rub is that there are going to be lots of aircraft sitting in barns whose owner did not receive the card and or eventually who is not paying attention to the FARs and will let the registration lapse. The FAA intends to eventually reissue the registration numbers and the antique aircraft will no longer have it's original registration number when it is assigned to a new plastic airframe.

[T. C. Downey]

We are starting to see one other,, "sale reported" the FAA has received the pink slip saying the owner sold the aircraft, but have not received the request for registration from the new owner.

in the next few years many more aircraft registrations will expire, many more than will be built, so many of the old numbers simply will not be assigned.

[bagarre]

About 3 years ago the TSA (or some other gov. agency) charged with keeping us safe from terrorists with airplanes decided they needed to know absolutely who owned airplanes and where they could be located. Because after all terrorist can usually be found at there address of record.

They could save a lot of time and money if they would just require the terrorists to register with the government.

[Ryan Smith]

We can probably safely assume that a lot of these airplanes have deceased owners. Who legally owns the airplane at that point? Case in point, a friend of mine passed away a few years ago and owned an A model Bonanza. He had no wife, no kids, and as far as I know, no heirs. Who is the legal owner of his airplane now? Who can write a bill of sale to transfer ownership?

I'm sure there are thousands of airplanes around the country just like his.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Ryan his estate owns the aircraft. Who is in charge of the estate. If he made no plans otherwise the State is.

[T. C. Downey]

We can probably safely assume that a lot of these airplanes have deceased owners. Who legally owns the airplane at that point? Case in point, a friend of mine passed away a few years ago and owned an A model Bonanza. He had no wife, no kids, and as far as I know, no heirs. Who is the legal owner of his airplane now? Who can write a bill of sale to transfer ownership?

I'm sure there are thousands of airplanes around the country just like his.

When these circumstances occur the aircraft usually defaults to the airport for unpaid rents they can usually take custody after the courts rule on the rent defaults. then you can buy it when the airport puts it up for sale. By that time its usually junk.

[GAHorn]

I dont recall FAA ever claiming this is aTSA or terrorist issue. They stated it to be a failure of the triennial report issue. Many many years ago, congress charged FAA with responsiblity for aircraft registration, and ICAO also requires countries to maintain aircraft registries. The old system didn't work, the new system should work better by requiring owners to respond, and the very low fee covers the cost, per Congressional mandate so that complaining taxpayers that don't own planes aren't paying for it.
Inattentive antique car owners don't get to keep their original license tags automatically either, and the registry is running out of numbers unless the registry is cleared of unused ones. Otherwise we'll have to use the same stupid, unweildy alpha-numeric system the rest of the world uses.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I agree the tri-annual post card didn't work. No one seemed to care until we (the government) wanted to know who owned those terrorist tools called airplanes. That is what I recall.

A license plate is a little different than paint which is how most airplanes are marked. I'd venture to say had cars had registration numbers painted on them, the number/car relationship would be more sacred.

[GAHorn]

The entire story about the new rules are found in the Federal Record. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-07 ... -17572.pdf

The background is covered very well. The reason primarily revolves around the financial institutions, insurance, and law enforcement as it pertains to accidents, theft, lawsuits, etc etc etc.

Out of sixteen pages, triple-columned, ..TSA in only mentioned once....way down, virtually as an afterthought,...just as a theory.... in case they might show an interest....not as a primary, or even an important reason for the change.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Just tripped over this link while looking for something else. It is a NBC news story from 2010 stating that the FAA is missing key data on 119,000 planes and the agency (FAA) fears "questionable registration" could be exploited by terrorists and drug traffickers.

By CHRIS HAWLEY

updated 12/10/2010 7:10:23 PM ET

NEW YORK — The Federal Aviation Administration's aircraft registry is missing key information on who owns one-third of the 357,000 private and commercial planes in the U.S. — a gap the agency fears could be exploited by terrorists and drug traffickers.
The records are in such disarray that the FAA says it is worried that criminals could buy planes without the government's knowledge, or use the registration numbers of other aircraft to evade new computer systems designed to track suspicious flights. It has ordered all aircraft owners to re-register their planes in an effort to clean up its files.

full story here: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40590745/ns/t ... ta-planes/

So if was another alphabet agency the FAA, not the TSA, at least according to NBC.

[cessna170bdriver]

I'll gladly pay my $5 to prevent going through this: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Jo ... 205-1.html

[GAHorn]

Piece-of-cake! Call 866-762-9434 with your CC info or FAX it to 405-954-8068 if you have your renewal notice in-hand.
or their reregistration website is: http://registry.faa.gov/renewregistration

If you're a criminal and don't want your tail number tracked so as to be arrested, simply call their toll-free number and request your tail number not be tracked/displayed in the system. New rules don't even require you to give a reason other than "privacy".

[rydfly]

They could save a lot of time and money if they would just require the terrorists to register with the government.

Ohio is already ahead of the game here... on the annual state aircraft registration form, there is a section where the applicant must check "YES" or "NO" that he/she is currently or has previously supported known terrorist organizations, monetarily or otherwise.

What a clever way to catch those devious terrorists!

[juredd1]

Side question but in the area of Aircraft Registration. Anyone know how long I have to submit the bill of sale and new registration paperwork? I could not even be asking the right question.


Justin