Green vs. Red Debate help

juredd1 · Post by **juredd1** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:31 pm

So what should I expect if I buy a plane that is both green and red? Will the most dominant color prevail or will I just get a faster plane as they try to out perform each other?

Yes, After 10+ months of looking I found a bank that didn't ask any questions, just said here's the money (Worries me a little). They were within 40 miles of my home town, right under my nose the whole time. So a down payment to hold the plane until I can get there to look her over has been made but I have a good feeling about it.

With that said. I am debating on a pre-buy inspection as the annual was done within the last week. Do I just trust my judgement (Not sure that's a good idea) or get a whole new annual or go for a pre-buy? Does anyone know someone in within an hour or so of Spokane, WA that I can trust to look at a 170?

Justin

bigrenna · Post by **bigrenna** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:20 pm

delete

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:53 pm

Well Justin, how about that. Here is what I think. And Greg has said it all. You need another set of eyes working for you when you buy any plane but as hard and emotional roller coaster as you've been down, you specially need that impartial eye.

Remember, now that you have found the bank, there will be another if this one doesn't work out.

BTW make sure the Red and Green are spread evenly about the plane otherwise it will only fly in circles as those faster green parts try to pass the slower red parts.

juredd1 · Post by **juredd1** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:42 pm

Thanks to Greg and Bruce for their response. I am not totally opposed to a pre-buy inspection but the key word for me is "Your" representative. My representative will not travel 1800 miles one-way with me nor do I want to pay his rate for that. Any advice on how do I go about finding someone in the area that does not have a dog in this hunt?

I have heard that is a lot of iron out there but I am not know for my patience. With no rental options within an hours drive of my home I have the itch real bad. I am just hoping that doesn't bite me and that I don't mess this up. Hopefully that is what a good pre-buy guy/gal will keep me from doing.

Justin

bigrenna · Post by **bigrenna** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:42 am

delete

N2625U · Post by **N2625U** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:43 am

I spent 3 years looking and went mostly by my gut instinct when I finally found my plane in '03. It is a '63 172 but the looking for the plane is the same. I looked at the bird and then went home and found a few mechanics who had worked on it in the not too distant past and got their intake. Also got the disk from the FAA and checked it over. Had a few things wrong which helped bring the price down and also it was in Oct, the seller had bought 182 and wasn't to thrilled about paying tiedown fees for the winter. So almost everything was in my favor. Bought it at a good price and put about 450 hours on it before overhauling the engine. I'm happy with the decision I made and it will probably last the rest of my flying life. I also suggest doing a Google search on the N number. Sometimes you'll be surprised at what you find.

Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:41 pm

Justin, put on a red T-shirt and slow down. We have a few members in that neck of the woods. Tom Downey (T. C. Downey here at the forum) may be able to help with the inspection or someone else who can to it.

juredd1 · Post by **juredd1** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:19 am

Greg,

Thanks again for your input. I ordered the FAA CD last night and checked on the planefax today. I guess I'm cheap in ways that I can be. Sounded like they get you an AD list, damage history, ownership change, 337 forms submitted. Maybe more that I can't remember. I know the FAA CD has the ownership info and 337 forms. I am thinking the pre-buy guy should check the AD list but not sure. I can search the FAA site for previous reported accidents. They may do a title search and if they do it might be with the $99 as a title search through king is $75.

I have looked at 2 170A's, 4 170B's, and 2 108 Stinson airplanes. Around 6000+ miles by car and 8 states. I am flying out to look in a 3 weeks. Will fly in it as I don't have my tail wheel rating yet. Will check out the log books. 1954 B model. TT 4815 with 832 SMOH and 330 since top with new cylinders. Auto Fuel STC, Baggage Door STC, Goodyear 26 x 6 Tires & tubes, Price is not 100% set yet but looks like mid 30's.

Heck I am so new to this I don't even know what are mods and what are not I think what I listed are mods.

N2625U,

3 years of looking, I can't imagine that search. I am just praying I come out good on this as I've been 10 months looking and was ready go give up even with everyone's advice from forum to be patient. I did google search it and found some nice pictures but nothing bad so far.

Bruce,

Thanks for the info, maybe Tom will have some time for me and get with me on some ideas. Not looking for free help here just someone that can give me some good 170 help for a fair price.

Justin

bigrenna · Post by **bigrenna** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:36 am

delete

N2625U · Post by **N2625U** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:06 am

I'm accused of being too patient sometimes.

Jim

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:16 am

juredd1 wrote:I am thinking the pre-buy guy should check the AD list but not sure.

And you would be wrong. Unless of course you specifically contract the "pre-buy guy" to do just that. And then you will also have to specifically contract the "pre-buy guy" for every other detail you want checked. You see there is no pre-buy check list.

Of course there is a specific legally binding check list called a annual inspection. And as part of it a AD list must be checked. Of course the problem here is once you buy the aircraft and find the annual was not completed correctly you may have to sue the mechanic. It is not always a win situation but I still recommend an annual and it should be done by someone working for you who knows these planes didn't come with 26 x 6 tires and baggage doors.

Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:43 pm

Arash now you've gone and done it. Posted cost of operation. You could stop the fleet posting those numbers many of us don't keep track of

juredd1 · Post by **juredd1** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:05 pm

Greg,

I didn't get to see what you had before the edit and disregard.....So I guess I missed out.

Bruce,

I did understand that those two items were not original. Just not sure that everything that was not original is considered an mod per say. I realize it is modification but so is new paint. Just clarifying on my end so I don't look quit so stupid.

Arash,

Do you have the figures for the 229 hours before May 2011? Maybe I can cut my loses now.

Justin

Bill Hart · Post by **Bill Hart** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:27 pm

Justin,

Where is the airplane located. I have seen many times where someone would ask if there was any one on the forum near a possible purchurse airplane and ask if someone would check it out.

If you find out that it sounds like something you are interested in ask if anyone knows an IA who will do the annual for you.

I think you might be overlooking a huge resorce.

Let me also add from my personal experience buy the best one you can find and not the best deal because as others have said the best deal will be the one with the lest problems.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:42 am

juredd1 wrote:Thanks to Greg and Bruce for their response. I am not totally opposed to a pre-buy inspection but the key word for me is "Your" representative. My representative will not travel 1800 miles one-way with me nor do I want to pay his rate for that. Any advice on how do I go about finding someone in the area that does not have a dog in this hunt?

I have heard that is a lot of iron out there but I am not know for my patience. With no rental options within an hours drive of my home I have the itch real bad. I am just hoping that doesn't bite me and that I don't mess this up. Hopefully that is what a good pre-buy guy/gal will keep me from doing.

Justin

The answer to your query has already been offered: Hire a competent disinterested party to perform an annual inspection.
Tell him you only want the inspection...and the list of discrepancies that annual inspection discovers, along with his estimate of what it will cost to correct those discrepancies. Tell him that if you make the purchase, you will expect him to perform those corrections and sign the annual off.
Now you have something to go on, and a price to haggle over to a mutual satisfaction....or a list of discrepancies so large/expensive as to cancel any deal on that airplane.
After all... other than a "project"....why would anyone want to buy an airplane unless it is airworthy? (And the ONLY inspection which checks for airworthiness...is an ANNUAL INSPECTION. If you only buy a "pre-buy" inspection...and you later discover a serious problem...the pre-buy inspector will tell you "I don't include that item on a "pre-buy". If you wanted THAT looked at....you should have asked for an ANNUAL." (There are just too many things which can be overlooked on a "pre buy" because there is NO LEGAL DEFINITION of a "pre buy inspection".)
A thorough annual inspection is the least expensive way to determine if any airplane is truly airworthy.

The International Cessna 170 Association