I don't know how many 170 Association members read and otherwise participate in these forums,but how about EVERYONE check in here,and state if:
1) you want an Assn calendar or not
2) you've made your opinion known to HQ
Yes to both in my case.
Eric
170 Association Calendars
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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Bill Venohr
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:42 pm
I felt the same way as you just stated Randal, ...until Jamie and I attended LAS last year. Talk about a destination we had absolutely NO interest in, along with NO desire to fly the hot and high desert. And the expense you mentioned to fly the plane there and back, and the hotels, and the events were not what I thought sounded too interesting, but in order to participate and get to know other members we "bit-the-bullet" and did it. Hey, are we glad!! 
I especially was previously in agreement that the convention sites should be centrally located/easily/affordably located. But when you think about the logistics...that's easier said than done for numerous reasons.
1. The location (if held in central states all the time) would penalize all those members on each coast. (And would not take into consideration the domiciles of the majority of the membership---Texas and California, by the way.)
2. Central locations would also eventually become boring to those who regularly attend, and would be especially wearisome to fly to time after time. The flying challenges would not be especially educational either. An Okie would never get to see real mountains if he never went to the west coast. A Montanan would never realize how much better his airplane performs at sea level!
And the award for the most distance flown to get to the convention would only be awarded to the same folks time and time again. 
3. Aviation points-of-interest are not located only centrally. Think about Wilmington, N.C. and Kill Devil Hills!!!
4. And lastly, regarding cost: There are less expensive ways to get to the conventions. A. Share rides/airplane expenses B. Check out local campsites or less expensive hotels (the official convention hotel is neither mandatory nor will any additional costs be incurred to participate in convention mtgs.) C. Contact family members who live nearby D. Rent/borrow/steal an RV and bring your own food. E. Be very selective in which daily events truly interest you. With this last suggestion, remember that the conventions are for the purpose of meeting other members and making new friends and talking airplanes, etc. The convention touring events are just extras,....there's no huge reason to have to spend money at those activities. There's plenty of free things going on with other members.
Lastly, remember that with two or more attendees, it's probably cheaper, safer, and a lot more fun to fly your own 170 or share a ride with another than the airlines anyway. Take a couple of days to make the journey each way, stopping to visit relatives or friends along the way. Make 500 miles a day about all you attempt, and allow an extra day in case you develop additional interests or unplanned events occur along the way. Remember, ...make this a well thought-out, and well planned-for-in-advance family vacation. As soon as you make one of these conventions, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you simply can't wait to start planning for the next one,...and you'll HOPE it's someplace other than another nearby place to fly to!
I especially was previously in agreement that the convention sites should be centrally located/easily/affordably located. But when you think about the logistics...that's easier said than done for numerous reasons.
1. The location (if held in central states all the time) would penalize all those members on each coast. (And would not take into consideration the domiciles of the majority of the membership---Texas and California, by the way.)
2. Central locations would also eventually become boring to those who regularly attend, and would be especially wearisome to fly to time after time. The flying challenges would not be especially educational either. An Okie would never get to see real mountains if he never went to the west coast. A Montanan would never realize how much better his airplane performs at sea level!
And the award for the most distance flown to get to the convention would only be awarded to the same folks time and time again. 3. Aviation points-of-interest are not located only centrally. Think about Wilmington, N.C. and Kill Devil Hills!!!
4. And lastly, regarding cost: There are less expensive ways to get to the conventions. A. Share rides/airplane expenses B. Check out local campsites or less expensive hotels (the official convention hotel is neither mandatory nor will any additional costs be incurred to participate in convention mtgs.) C. Contact family members who live nearby D. Rent/borrow/steal an RV and bring your own food. E. Be very selective in which daily events truly interest you. With this last suggestion, remember that the conventions are for the purpose of meeting other members and making new friends and talking airplanes, etc. The convention touring events are just extras,....there's no huge reason to have to spend money at those activities. There's plenty of free things going on with other members.
Lastly, remember that with two or more attendees, it's probably cheaper, safer, and a lot more fun to fly your own 170 or share a ride with another than the airlines anyway. Take a couple of days to make the journey each way, stopping to visit relatives or friends along the way. Make 500 miles a day about all you attempt, and allow an extra day in case you develop additional interests or unplanned events occur along the way. Remember, ...make this a well thought-out, and well planned-for-in-advance family vacation. As soon as you make one of these conventions, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you simply can't wait to start planning for the next one,...and you'll HOPE it's someplace other than another nearby place to fly to!
Last edited by GAHorn on Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Hey Randal, from PA it wold cost me about $1300 to make Dave Masons but I hope to make it some day. I hope to make Wilmington this year cause looking at the convention schedule I'm not going to make the next few.R COLLINS wrote:A rough estimate that I penciled out to get to Wilmington from Texas and back and attend one event per day with my wife would be about $1300.00. I would like to see more events centrally located,..... but there is alot to be said about grass root fly-ins like Dave Mason's that generally attracts over 300 planes. Randal 1745D
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce thats exactly what I'm talking about, you qouted "looking at the schedule you would not be able to make the next few" I'm assuming because of the distances and logistics. I looked at the convention schedule from '99 to '05 and the closest to my location was Durango, Co. in '99. That was 660 miles from PSN, my home base. Looking over the same schedule and computing the distances from your home base (UKT) gave me these numbers Shelbyville in '01 481 miles, Wilmington in '03 389 miles, and Dearborn in '05 at 382 miles, thats three sites in 7 years less than 500 miles. I started researching this when someone complained that only 3 to 5 percent of the members attend the conventions. According to the '01 membership directory there are 114 members listed in Texas, not counting the supplements, compared to 27 in Pennsylvania. Believe me not all Texans own an oil well. The west coast guys are just as fortunate as the members in your area when it comes to relatively close sites. I live in what is considered northeast Texas so there is a ton of real estate south of me that inflates those guys distances even more. I hope that people get the message I am trying to get across, I'm not giving excuses for not going, but the reasoning for a low turn out. Is it wrong to ask for a central location more than once every eight to ten years? How else can the members on the east coast meet the ones from the west coast, fly 2000 miles, I quess. I live in a semi-rural area so there is not a ideal location here, but maybe some other Texas, Oklahoma, or Arkansas members can make a pitch for their area. Randal N1745D
Perhaps if we could entice the local "Hooters" girls to come out and pose by our individual planes in some type of....um....outfit of the owner's choice in exchange for an airplane ride we could increase convention participation AND have a dandy TIC170A calendar! What say ye, fine TIC170A folks...or is my mind back under the tailwheel again! 
John, 2734C in Summit Point, WV
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
How about Branson Missouri?
Also Branson has Outlet Malls where Randal and I could buy shoes for our children. Perspectives on this issue are influenced by where one is in they're life. Retired vs Rearing a family, for example. I have vacation scheduled for the convention, but am really debating on weather to go or not. It is also the week of the District Softball Tournaments. I couldn't even get any members to say they'd play golf with me. In about 30yrs I'll have the same interest and I'll be ready to go to the War Memorials with you guys. When IS the next Centrally Located Convention, anyway?
Also Branson has Outlet Malls where Randal and I could buy shoes for our children. Perspectives on this issue are influenced by where one is in they're life. Retired vs Rearing a family, for example. I have vacation scheduled for the convention, but am really debating on weather to go or not. It is also the week of the District Softball Tournaments. I couldn't even get any members to say they'd play golf with me. In about 30yrs I'll have the same interest and I'll be ready to go to the War Memorials with you guys. When IS the next Centrally Located Convention, anyway?
Last edited by David Laseter on Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
How about a compromise--the Hooters girls at Branson!
Back to calenders--it looks like the underwhelming response about calenders,both here & to the Flypaper query,indicates that we aren't gonna be seeing any produced by the Assn. I doubt they wanna be bothered with printing up 12 of them--even if we made it a baker's dozen & gave one to the "no" vote guy!
I can't see why every member doesn't want to buy at least one,but I don't understand quantum physics either!
Oh well,another good idea that apparently just isn't gonna work out.
Eric
Back to calenders--it looks like the underwhelming response about calenders,both here & to the Flypaper query,indicates that we aren't gonna be seeing any produced by the Assn. I doubt they wanna be bothered with printing up 12 of them--even if we made it a baker's dozen & gave one to the "no" vote guy!
I can't see why every member doesn't want to buy at least one,but I don't understand quantum physics either!
Oh well,another good idea that apparently just isn't gonna work out.
Eric
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Hey Randal Good points. I didn't even realize those other conventions where so close to me. I may have to reconsider attending them. Some how I just can't seem to fly west. Been to Florida (Sun N Fun) 7 times but never to Oshkosh which is actually closer.
And I now can better visuallize what your trying to say. I'm sure that the biggest reason conventions are where they are is cause some one or group volunteers to put it together. These places just haven't been centrally located. BTY I've been trying to fly to Texas for some unknown reason for some time now and haven't made it yet, so a convention there would be fine with me.
About the calendars. I'm just not a calendar guy. I didn't vote yes or no. All of my calendar budget gets diverted to my flying budget trying to get to fly-ins so I can see the real McCoy.
And I now can better visuallize what your trying to say. I'm sure that the biggest reason conventions are where they are is cause some one or group volunteers to put it together. These places just haven't been centrally located. BTY I've been trying to fly to Texas for some unknown reason for some time now and haven't made it yet, so a convention there would be fine with me.
About the calendars. I'm just not a calendar guy. I didn't vote yes or no. All of my calendar budget gets diverted to my flying budget trying to get to fly-ins so I can see the real McCoy.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
In a PM I responded to a member about this issue. Some of you might find portions of the response of interest.
... I remember when my own feelings were exactly the same as you mention. The conventions actually HAVE been in Texas before. Twice. And I've thrown my vote in to the directors that I thought another one was due here. But in order to have a convention in any particular location, we have to have a convention HOST. The Host has almost two years of prepratory work to perform setting up Hotels, Tours, convention halls, getting local business sponsors, etc. etc. Then when the convention actually occurs, the Host must be the business manager for the entire week's events, having already spent at least the entire week PREVIOUS getting final set-ups performed. This invades and takes over the Host's entire life for quite some time,....and it pays nothing. It's entirely volunteer. (Think about the demands upon YOUR time, if you voluunteered to do this.) If you've ever participated in a nation-wide organizational convention, you'll know what I'm talking about.
With regard to (your) feeling that the only way to arrive is in a 170, you might be interested to know that most convention attendees actually arrive via airline! Many feel that weather and other concerns are too great to risk the investment in hotels/tours/etc. That's not my feeling, but it's apparently the way many feel. (Plus I suspect some wives just don't want to ride in a small plane with their spouses.) Personally, I don't feel having a "beautiful" plane is a requirement. Most 170's in the fleet are either well-worn workhorses or otherwise show their age. I find them ALL simply beautiful! I love 170's no matter how they're dressed, and no matter how they're used! I like seeing them and their differences.
Also, I'd never want to miss out on visiting with other 170 owners/enthusiasts simply because their airplane wasn't out at the airport. The majority of the time spent at conventions is with the people, and seeing the tours/sights, ...not the airplanes. And many members are actually retired persons who either use a RV for the vacation journey, or may no longer actually own a 170. (Many of our members have never owned one....they simply admire the airplane. Some of our members are spouses/descendants of deceased former members who made strong friendships years ago at previous conventions, and wish to continue the great comraderie and good relationships formed long ago. I was personally surprised and pleased to meet some of these very interesting people, and Jamie and I now exchange cards and letters with several of them, and look forward to seeing them again later this year.)
Bottom line: There's lots more to this than first meets the eye. Conventions sites revolve around a lot more than simply a convenient location. (And what's convenient for one, is inconvenient for hundreds.) One of the most important requirements is a Volunteer Host. (To volunteer, contact the President of TIC170A with a letter including all the reasons you believe your site will be an attractive convention site, and should be considered over/above any others for the proposed year, and describe the efforts you are willing to make to ensure the success of the convention.)
I personally believe an excellent site would be New Orleans, (with it's D-Day Museum). But we don't have any volunteer Host from there. At least not one that has spoken up.
...
So,...you see..., it's not all that simple.
Regards,
George
An issue I didn't mention in the above response, is the problems faced by a convention host in getting local airport authorities to even allow a convention! Many airports don't want, aren't insured, have prohibitive regulations that prevent conventions from being held at their airports. This can be for many reasons including parking space, visitor arrival/departure handling, security concerns, insurance risks, etc. Call your local airport manager and tell him you want to invite a hundred or so taildraggers to come and take up the ramp spaces and tie down for a week (free, of course) and don't want to pay retail prices for the 20-30 gals of fuel that'll be sold see what he says.
We owe a huge debt of gratitude to past and future convention hosts for the hard work and personal sacrifices they all go through which frequently end up in unwarranted criticism.
(As a sidenote to all regarding central locations, past conventions have been held in CO, IL, WI, TN, PA, MO, IA, and AL, some locations several times, as well as all four corners of the US. You want a convention near you? Volunteer!)
... I remember when my own feelings were exactly the same as you mention. The conventions actually HAVE been in Texas before. Twice. And I've thrown my vote in to the directors that I thought another one was due here. But in order to have a convention in any particular location, we have to have a convention HOST. The Host has almost two years of prepratory work to perform setting up Hotels, Tours, convention halls, getting local business sponsors, etc. etc. Then when the convention actually occurs, the Host must be the business manager for the entire week's events, having already spent at least the entire week PREVIOUS getting final set-ups performed. This invades and takes over the Host's entire life for quite some time,....and it pays nothing. It's entirely volunteer. (Think about the demands upon YOUR time, if you voluunteered to do this.) If you've ever participated in a nation-wide organizational convention, you'll know what I'm talking about.
With regard to (your) feeling that the only way to arrive is in a 170, you might be interested to know that most convention attendees actually arrive via airline! Many feel that weather and other concerns are too great to risk the investment in hotels/tours/etc. That's not my feeling, but it's apparently the way many feel. (Plus I suspect some wives just don't want to ride in a small plane with their spouses.) Personally, I don't feel having a "beautiful" plane is a requirement. Most 170's in the fleet are either well-worn workhorses or otherwise show their age. I find them ALL simply beautiful! I love 170's no matter how they're dressed, and no matter how they're used! I like seeing them and their differences.
Also, I'd never want to miss out on visiting with other 170 owners/enthusiasts simply because their airplane wasn't out at the airport. The majority of the time spent at conventions is with the people, and seeing the tours/sights, ...not the airplanes. And many members are actually retired persons who either use a RV for the vacation journey, or may no longer actually own a 170. (Many of our members have never owned one....they simply admire the airplane. Some of our members are spouses/descendants of deceased former members who made strong friendships years ago at previous conventions, and wish to continue the great comraderie and good relationships formed long ago. I was personally surprised and pleased to meet some of these very interesting people, and Jamie and I now exchange cards and letters with several of them, and look forward to seeing them again later this year.)
Bottom line: There's lots more to this than first meets the eye. Conventions sites revolve around a lot more than simply a convenient location. (And what's convenient for one, is inconvenient for hundreds.) One of the most important requirements is a Volunteer Host. (To volunteer, contact the President of TIC170A with a letter including all the reasons you believe your site will be an attractive convention site, and should be considered over/above any others for the proposed year, and describe the efforts you are willing to make to ensure the success of the convention.)
I personally believe an excellent site would be New Orleans, (with it's D-Day Museum). But we don't have any volunteer Host from there. At least not one that has spoken up.
...
So,...you see..., it's not all that simple.
Regards,
George
An issue I didn't mention in the above response, is the problems faced by a convention host in getting local airport authorities to even allow a convention! Many airports don't want, aren't insured, have prohibitive regulations that prevent conventions from being held at their airports. This can be for many reasons including parking space, visitor arrival/departure handling, security concerns, insurance risks, etc. Call your local airport manager and tell him you want to invite a hundred or so taildraggers to come and take up the ramp spaces and tie down for a week (free, of course) and don't want to pay retail prices for the 20-30 gals of fuel that'll be sold see what he says.
We owe a huge debt of gratitude to past and future convention hosts for the hard work and personal sacrifices they all go through which frequently end up in unwarranted criticism.
(As a sidenote to all regarding central locations, past conventions have been held in CO, IL, WI, TN, PA, MO, IA, and AL, some locations several times, as well as all four corners of the US. You want a convention near you? Volunteer!)
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
George that's some pretty good insite!
Randall, when you and you're wife come up to fish, we'll make plans for having a convention at my place. I know we can put it on for a max of $50 per person. We got Crappie and Bass fishing, Bubba Smith's Hog Farm, John Daily's house he grew up in, Miss America 1981 house she grew up in. Then there's the Tyson Chicken Musuem, Arkansas River Lock & Dam, Nucleur 1 Power plant, Petit Jean, Joe Bob's Winery, AND if that ain't nough, we got 4-wheelers, horses, rafting trips, OH just wait till you see my sisters, husband's, Dad's, Brother's, Stud Horse BJ. That is one awesome quarter horse! And for the kids, Joe's Parent's live on Gar Creek where Joe (N1478D) grew up catching Crawdad. We have FREE camping for everyone and the $50 is for a week of the finest Southern, all you can eat, Buffets in existance!
Ya'll come now, hear?
Randall, when you and you're wife come up to fish, we'll make plans for having a convention at my place. I know we can put it on for a max of $50 per person. We got Crappie and Bass fishing, Bubba Smith's Hog Farm, John Daily's house he grew up in, Miss America 1981 house she grew up in. Then there's the Tyson Chicken Musuem, Arkansas River Lock & Dam, Nucleur 1 Power plant, Petit Jean, Joe Bob's Winery, AND if that ain't nough, we got 4-wheelers, horses, rafting trips, OH just wait till you see my sisters, husband's, Dad's, Brother's, Stud Horse BJ. That is one awesome quarter horse! And for the kids, Joe's Parent's live on Gar Creek where Joe (N1478D) grew up catching Crawdad. We have FREE camping for everyone and the $50 is for a week of the finest Southern, all you can eat, Buffets in existance!
Ya'll come now, hear?