What basis (if any) did Cessna use for model numbers?

[Kyle Wolfe]

OK, a non-aviation friend asked me the other day as to why his friends 195 was named a 195. I did not know. It got me to thinking, why was the 120 a 120, a 140 a 140, and most importantly a 170 a 170? (I know, Harold will want to also know why the 180 was a 180 too )

Any basis for their numbering scheme? Wasn't knots, or MPH. Cubic feet of cabin space? Nope thought about that but it doesn't work either.

Inquiring minds want to know. And I don't want to look stupid the next time somebody asks. Any help?

[GAHorn]

The derivation of Cessna model numbers is such a maze of intricacies as to make the excersize a frustrating effort if you're someone who is looking for logic. It's not been logical since before WW-2.
Early models had designations like AW, AC, AF, etc. for Cessna's model A with a Warner engine (AW) or Comet engine, or Floco engine...etc. etc. The development of subsequent models got more and more confusing thru B, C, D, E, F, G and so on models with a myriad of engine possibilities. Then came the U.S. Army with their own set of models which confused even Clyde Cessna and his nephew Dwane Wallce who'd taken over the company after Clyde went back to farming.
Dwane Wallace was a marketing genius (and excellent pilot and engineer) who is the person really responsible for turning the company into a successful venture (along with his brother Dwight, a lawyer.) It was mostly Dwane that really guided the company thru the C-145/165 series of Cessnas (the "C" now really stood for Cessna and the 145 or 165 stood for the horsepower of the Warner engine.) Later on the 195 was developed from a "proof of concept" airplane that took the C-34 (Cessna/1934 design) and used as many parts as possible from the T-50 parts/assemblies. (The T-50 was the "Bamboo Bomber", Cessna's first twin engine success sold to the gov't as a bomber/navigator trainer, and after the war as an executive transport made up from remanufactured surplus airframes.) The C-34 was steel tube and fabric airplane that in it's 190 descendancy became an all metal airplane using the Jacobs engine, then later the W-670 Continental engine. The 195 was a further development with Jacobs engines of various horsepower ratings and airframe improvements.
With the 190/195 series being named (apparently purely as a marketing ploy), subsequent aircraft with lower performance numbers and seating arrangements were designated with lower numbers...hence the 120/140/170...and so on.
The whole story is quite extensive, and if you really want to read up on it I'd suggest "Cessna, A Master's Expression" by Edward H. Phillips, (IBSN 0-911139-04-4) and "The Legend of Cessna", by Jeffrey L Rodengen. (IBSN 0-945903-30-8 )

[zero.one.victor]

Even the model-number series doesn't make a whole lot of sense. the series 100 airplanes (120>195) are all single engine, some fixed gear some retracts. The 200 series (205, 206, 207,208,210) are all high performance singles --260 horse & up-- some fixed gear, one retract, one turbine. The 300 series are all retract twins-- except the 305, better known as the L19 Birddog--seems like it shoulda been included in the 100 series.
No rhyme or reason to it from what I can see.

Eric

[GAHorn]

I believe the "305" was merely an in-house "project number" that sometimes found it's way into common useage. The 170 for example, eventually had a research project designated the "309"...nothing even remotely like 170. The first 190/195 was actually project "780" before it recieved it's marketing-department nomenclature. None of it makes sense to an outsider to the engineering/design section of the Cessna factory as to where they got certain designations.
The intent of the marketing department was to issue a model number that would make more sense to the buying public. An example is the four-engined airplane they once produced: The C-310 was a twin...so the quad-engined airplane was a C-620.

[zero.one.victor]

I believe the official designation for the Birddog is Cessna (or Ector) model 305. L-19 & O-1 are both militairy designations.

Eric

[lowNslow]

The 300 series are all retract twins-- except the 305, better known as the L19 Birddog--seems like it shoulda been included in the 100 series.

Eric

Don't forget the Cessna 336 - fixed gear. Again, no rhyme nor reason.

[N3243A]

Don't forget the Cessna 336 - fixed gear. Again, no rhyme nor reason.

I thought most pilots who have flown the the 336 WANT to forget the "mixmaster" or old "huff'en puff" or another favorite name "suck and blow" and finally how about Skytrasher?

[rudymantel]

Cessna model designations are actually somewhat logical and just based on product identification. The numbers are as logical as Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737 etc. Or Convair 240, 340, 440. Or Fairchild 27 and 227.
The designations that really confuse me are Piper models ! Never did learn those-
Rudy

[rudymantel]

BTW, I must add to the "Skythrasher" message. In 1964 I sold a new 336 to a corporation, operated it for them and several years later purchased it back.
I loved that airplane ! Kept it for years. Slow, yes, but a superb short-field airplane, with a nice large cabin for pax or cargo, a wide fixed gear and a great useful load; as I recall, the gross wt was 3600 lbs and the empty weight around 1800 lbs.
When light, it would go in an out of almost any field a 180 would, (hard to believe but true)yet had twin engine safety for overseas charters. One month I flew ten round trips between Kingston and Nicaragua, for Occidental Petroleum. It would go non-stop from Jamaica to Panama or Belize and we flew regular "commisary flights" to the Big PX (Miami and Ft. Lauderdale). Could fly two O-470's in that airplane.
Over the years I operated three 337's (owned two) but my favorite was that 336.
FWIW,
Rudy

[N3243A]

Rudy,

I knew someone would come to the defense of the old 336. I have no experience with the type, just relating names I have heard it called over the years for the sake of a little humor.

Bruce

[rudymantel]

Bruce, no offese taken- I've heard it called worse-
Someone once told me that from the rear it looked like a duck about to evcuate its bowels !
Cheers,
Rudy

[GAHorn]

Joe once told me (in confidence) that from the rear my 170 looked like a Cessna.

[Bill Rusk]

Ok.....

So what is the name for the 170? Others are called skywagon, skymaster,Skyhawk etc.


Bill

[N2865C]

In the original sales material Cessna called the 170 (and the 195) "Businessliner". I don't think they ever had a separate name for the 170.
jc

[GAHorn]

Cessna officially used two different monikers for early editions of the airplane. Since before the end of WW-2 they'd toyed with the slogan "Family Car of the Air" which they had intended to apply to a new model (a low wing) which they only had a mock-up of and then destroyed. They also considered applying it to a civilian version of the T-50, but then gave it to the 170 in marketing brochures. When the A-model came out they began to use "Businessliner" pretty regularly. However, Cessna never seemed to use any of those terms exclusively to the 170...but instead generically to any of their 4-place (or larger) civilian aircraft as a group. They later developed specific names for specific models such as the Skyhawk, Skylane, SkyLark, Commuter, SkyWagon, Super Skywagon, etc. etc. and kept them for the exclusive use of a particular model, mostly as a marketing ploy.