I am in the process of a conversion to a Franklin 220 Engine in my 170. I purchased the STC from Franklin in Colorado. My question is are the part numbers used in the STC for fuel and other applications are the M.S. or A.N?
Thanks if you can help.
Franklin 220 Engine Conversion
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robert barnedt 7238
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Franklin 220 Engine Conversion
Last edited by robert barnedt 7238 on Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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punkin170b
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robert barnedt 7238
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Franklin Conversion
Hi,
I am Patti the wife, RC is working nights but he will be at home in the morning. I do not know alot of what he needs, but I think he wants to know if the part numbers in the Franklin STC are M.S. or A.N.. He also needs to know if he can use flexable aero line between selector and gasolator?
Thank You,
Patti
I am Patti the wife, RC is working nights but he will be at home in the morning. I do not know alot of what he needs, but I think he wants to know if the part numbers in the Franklin STC are M.S. or A.N.. He also needs to know if he can use flexable aero line between selector and gasolator?
Thank You,
Patti
Last edited by robert barnedt 7238 on Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
In order to comply with a Supplemental Type Certificate the exact parts and procedures must be followed. When the STC-holder does not/can not/will not provide support for their product, it leaves the purchaser in an awkward position....either incapable of complying with the STC or risk an illegal modification. This is a very real problem that anyone contemplating the modification of their aircraft should consider. (And what does one do when the STC-holder completely disappears off the face of the earth and it comes time to sell the modified aircraft to a concerned potential buyer? Did that modification "enhance" the value of the aircraft as many STC sales-brochures promised? Or did the modification detract from the aircraft value because it is not documented or no longer supported?) But I digress.....
Whether or not Part numbers are "MS" or "AN" should be evident by the format of the numbers. (Most AN/MS hardware partnumbers actually include the "AN" or "MS" as a portion of the number, however numbers which are stand-alone, i.e., 1234567 are likely a proprietary part number. Example: 0500106-89 is the genuine/factory CESSNA proprietary part number for a NON FLEXIBLE aluminum fuel line between the fuel selector and the gascolator for a B-model.) Many parts, whether MS or AN, have a counterpart in the other system, and any aviation supplier should be able to provide the correct, corresponding part.
Whether or not Part numbers are "MS" or "AN" should be evident by the format of the numbers. (Most AN/MS hardware partnumbers actually include the "AN" or "MS" as a portion of the number, however numbers which are stand-alone, i.e., 1234567 are likely a proprietary part number. Example: 0500106-89 is the genuine/factory CESSNA proprietary part number for a NON FLEXIBLE aluminum fuel line between the fuel selector and the gascolator for a B-model.) Many parts, whether MS or AN, have a counterpart in the other system, and any aviation supplier should be able to provide the correct, corresponding part.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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punkin170b
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My recollection of the STC paperwork is that all the miscellaneous hardware part numbers had the full AN or MS designation as George refers to above. (I seem to recall most them being AN numbers, but the airplane is in the paint shop and I'll have to retrieve the logs/STC paperwork to be sure.) I also seem to remember that the STC specifically calls out flexible fuel line between the fuel selector and the gascolator. However, Gregg at Ryan Aero Service (Tucson, AZ) has a field approval in hand to fabricate a non-flexible aluminum fuel line in its place. Hope this helps you...
Matt
PS. Sorry to hear Ft. Collins is incommunicado. They were very helpful to us when we did the STC... It might have something to do with the PZL/Pratt&Whitney ordeal. Keep trying 'em. Pete Askeland was they guy we dealt with and had no problems.
Matt
PS. Sorry to hear Ft. Collins is incommunicado. They were very helpful to us when we did the STC... It might have something to do with the PZL/Pratt&Whitney ordeal. Keep trying 'em. Pete Askeland was they guy we dealt with and had no problems.
Last edited by punkin170b on Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Rule books are paper. They will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal." (E.K. Gann)
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Jr.CubBuilder
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punkin170b
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My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong or you have updated info, George!) is that P&W acquired PZL for their turbine product line and decided to shut down production of new Franklins. P&W is not interested in producing reciprocating engines. We Franklin operators are hoping that somebody like ECI buys the Franklin product line and resumes manufacturing in the near future. Thankfully our engine has been virtually trouble-free so far (knock on wood) and we haven't had to scrounge for parts. Frankin Engines (Ft. Collins) assured us they had plenty of parts and new engines on the shelf, but this was about a year-and-a-half ago. Haven't spoken with anyone there since. ECI has a small selection of parts shown as available on their website.
Matt
PS. Robert, I haven't retrieved my paperwork from the paint shop yet, but I reread your original post and have been thinking back regarding our installation. Franklin Engines' STC offers the option for an oversize (flexible) fuel line kit which we opted for initially. The "mysterious" part numbers you are refering to in the fuel delivery system could be for that kit. Another side note... The STC is very open to interpretation and in many cases does not call out specific little pieces of hardware, specific locations for firewall accessories, plumbing, wiring etc. The STC does not write you into a corner, and instead allows you to customize your installation more than many others. It just requires a little planning and thought before you start drilling holes in your airplane. We kinda liked that aspect in our case...
Matt
PS. Robert, I haven't retrieved my paperwork from the paint shop yet, but I reread your original post and have been thinking back regarding our installation. Franklin Engines' STC offers the option for an oversize (flexible) fuel line kit which we opted for initially. The "mysterious" part numbers you are refering to in the fuel delivery system could be for that kit. Another side note... The STC is very open to interpretation and in many cases does not call out specific little pieces of hardware, specific locations for firewall accessories, plumbing, wiring etc. The STC does not write you into a corner, and instead allows you to customize your installation more than many others. It just requires a little planning and thought before you start drilling holes in your airplane. We kinda liked that aspect in our case...
Last edited by punkin170b on Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Rule books are paper. They will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal." (E.K. Gann)
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Jr.CubBuilder
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I was daydreaming of upgrading to a new Franklin motor when my C145 wears out. Plus both the 235 and the 350 looked like good options for homebuilders.-
robert barnedt 7238
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- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:31 am
Thanks
Thanks everyone for the help you all have given me. After all the suggestions, I was able to sort thru the STC and the light came on.
Life really is learning about your C170.
Robert (R.C.)
Life really is learning about your C170.
Robert (R.C.)
Franklin
Hi I just took my franklin to Greg Lucas,in Oklahoma for assembly. He was working with Bruce kown and came highly recomended by Bruce.
greg was telling me that Pratt&Whittney didn't know they purchased the franklin engine division until the deal was finalized, They now have assumed all the product liability and are interested in selling it. I also was told several months ago by an EAA Rep. who spent the night here at the Bunkhouse(http://www.BunkhouseMotel.com) with us, the eci was buying it I called and the people told me the talks had cooled off and now they couldn't persue it for other reason's. I have been concerned about putting lots of dollars( to me) in this franklin and then have no parts availability. Good thing they are bullet proof! Mine isn't a pzl but usa , 220hp Greg told me they were finding more parts than they previously thought were out there. Maybe the 170 assoc should form a limited partnership corp and visit Pratt & Whittney! SeeeeeYa 2828D
greg was telling me that Pratt&Whittney didn't know they purchased the franklin engine division until the deal was finalized, They now have assumed all the product liability and are interested in selling it. I also was told several months ago by an EAA Rep. who spent the night here at the Bunkhouse(http://www.BunkhouseMotel.com) with us, the eci was buying it I called and the people told me the talks had cooled off and now they couldn't persue it for other reason's. I have been concerned about putting lots of dollars( to me) in this franklin and then have no parts availability. Good thing they are bullet proof! Mine isn't a pzl but usa , 220hp Greg told me they were finding more parts than they previously thought were out there. Maybe the 170 assoc should form a limited partnership corp and visit Pratt & Whittney! SeeeeeYa 2828D