New plane owner here, lets talk specs on an engine upgrade.

[spiro]

A buddy in a very light stock 170B got off in about 550 feet at 2500' elevation, but with minimum fuel and just the pilot. The ground was nice and hard; no mud, and no obsticles to clear. A cold day with very little breeze.

Cold as in fall hunting season in Alaska. The DA might've been more than 1500' *Below* SL? Rob also forgot to mention that the airplane needed major sheetmetal repair after that takeoff.

I'm one of those that think a 180 is a far more capable airplane than a 180hp 170, and a bargain in comparison. The 170's more fun to fly because it's lighter and fwd visibility's better. I've posted my thoughts on the relative economics of reengined 170's in one of the previous threads on the subject.

I bought mine because I got a good deal on it.

then don't turn it into a bad deal by putting a big engine on it. You're better off selling that one for a profit and buying one already converted. Talk to someone who's done a conversion, like Blueldr, about what it *really* costs.

if I find I can get myself (250) plus another 250 pounds out of a 500 foot long gravel bar with no obstacles with the O-300, I don't think I will need the upgrade. However, if I find that I need more like 800 feet for the above conditions (sea level, 40f) (half tanks) then the engine upgrade may make perfect sense to me. I know its not a super cub, but if I fly it light, I am hoping to keep from being not to far from it.

I have an 8042 prop on my 170 and it's a great improvement for off-airport opns, but nowhere near 180hp w/ a constant speed 80". 800' is about a minimum for me on a real nice gravel bar. Sounds like what you need is a super cub. It doesn't matter what kind of engine you put on a Cessna, it'll never be a cub.

you're welcome to fly the 80" prop on my A model next time you're in Anch before spending the ±$3000 to put one on yours. Never heard of anything bigger than an 80" installed on a 145hp 170, certainly no STC.

Anyone know if there is any benifit to 180 wingtips? Also, anyone know of an 84 inch prop available for the o-300c?

early 180 wingtips are the same as 170 ones. Maybe you've got some aftermarket ones? Many are approved for both. Some people are apparently convinced of their superiority.

[170C]

I have sure seen some really nice 170 conversions with LYC. 180's, Franklin 225's and Cont IO-360's. Those LYC 0-360's are supposed to be really good engines, but there is nothing with 4 cylinders that is going to be as smooth as a 6 cylinder. One of our members, Jim Yates, in Edmond, OK sure has a nice IO-360 (Cont) conversion. I have heard (purely talk--haven't seen any statictics to prove one way or the other) that a 200/225 hp conversion w/cs prop will outpreform a C-0470 C-180. Not being an engineer I can't say one way or the other. I have some doubts, but "they" may be technically correct. BTW the early 180's had about as good of forward visibility as 170's until they squared off the instrument panel. At one time I was somewhat seriously considering doing a conversion. I talked to quite a few folks and was told by a person I had a good deal of confidence in that if I wanted a more powerful plane that I would be much better off to sell my plane and buy a 180. His comment was that by the time I did the conversion I would have as much in it as an early model 180 and it would still be a conversion with less useful load, less fuel capacity and in essence would still be a compromised airplane. Now most of the folks I have talked to that have conversions speak highly of them (they say don't expect someone who has spent 6 months and $30,000 + doing an engine conversion to speak poorly of their decision) and if one is absolutely got to have the nice round tail of the 170, then go for it

[icepilot]

Just some info on the Franklin Conversion. I installed a 220 hp Franklin with a Mcauley CS prop this summer in my 1952 170B. I have only flown it about 4 hrs since completing it in the middle of Sept. Either the wx is crap or I have to work. So I am waiting for ski season to put it through its paces. But the little I have flown it was AMAZING! I should have a helicopter rating to fly this thing! Its a whole different animal.

But if you asked me if I would do it again I would tell you no. Unless I become rich and just needed a hobby. The project almost bankrupted me. All the costs were about a third more than I was quoted. Bad research on my part. But untill you buy the kit and the stc, you dont know exactly what it takes. With no cores and for items like the gov and carb they get expensive. I am still nervous about parts availability but there still seems to be enough out there floating around. But I do want to pick up some spare cyllinders when I get a chance.

When its all said and done, I have close to $45,000.00 into the conversion. Not including labor. Luckily I have a great friend/ A&P that helped me with this project. The price of the engine wasnt bad, about $15,000.00 for a rebuilt motor with mags, starter and alternator. The stc and kit was another $11,000.00, Prop and spinner was $8000.00 , carb $1900.00, gov $2200.00, baffling $1000.00 Then you have tons of small stuff- battery, battery box and cables, larger fuel strainer and fuel lines, starter and master solenoid, control cables ,engine gauges, oil filter adapter and lines. scatt tubing, air filter bracket, and alot of misc. hardware, fittings ect.. I live out in Bush Alaska so I had a lot of extra freight charges which were included in my costs above.

It took about 2 months working evenings and weekends. But alot of times just waiting on parts. It was fun and I learned alot. The nice thing about it is everything is practicly new firewall forward.

One of the reason I didnt op for a C180 is my airplane is FAA Capstone equiped. I dont know if all of you are familiar with the program but it consists of an Apollo MX 20 MFD, GX60 GPS/COM and a UAT transmitter/reciever for wx,terrain, and collision avoidance. Pretty neat system. Also have alot of other mods- 180 gear, 1 pc wind shield, BAS shoulder harnesses, Atlee Dodge folding rear seats, tail pull handles, STOL kit with leading edge cuff , fences, and tips, float and ski kits, scott tail wheel, and a marine VHF. I think I listed everything. So you can see I had alot into it already but not enough power, especially on floats.

Well enough rambling for now, If you have any questions feel free and i will update once I get some time on the franklin and see exactly what it can do. I dont think I will be dissap[ointed. And one last thing-- talk about smoooooth.

Brandon Leary

Bethel, Alaska

[mit]

Brandon
If you ever get into Fairbanks with it I would like to look at it!

Just some info on the Franklin Conversion. I installed a 220 hp Franklin with a Mcauley CS prop this summer in my 1952 170B. I have only flown it about 4 hrs since completing it in the middle of Sept. Either the wx is crap or I have to work. So I am waiting for ski season to put it through its paces. But the little I have flown it was AMAZING! I should have a helicopter rating to fly this thing! Its a whole different animal.

But if you asked me if I would do it again I would tell you no. Unless I become rich and just needed a hobby. The project almost bankrupted me. All the costs were about a third more than I was quoted. Bad research on my part. But untill you buy the kit and the stc, you dont know exactly what it takes. With no cores and for items like the gov and carb they get expensive. I am still nervous about parts availability but there still seems to be enough out there floating around. But I do want to pick up some spare cyllinders when I get a chance.

When its all said and done, I have close to $45,000.00 into the conversion. Not including labor. Luckily I have a great friend/ A&P that helped me with this project. The price of the engine wasnt bad, about $15,000.00 for a rebuilt motor with mags, starter and alternator. The stc and kit was another $11,000.00, Prop and spinner was $8000.00 , carb $1900.00, gov $2200.00, baffling $1000.00 Then you have tons of small stuff- battery, battery box and cables, larger fuel strainer and fuel lines, starter and master solenoid, control cables ,engine gauges, oil filter adapter and lines. scatt tubing, air filter bracket, and alot of misc. hardware, fittings ect.. I live out in Bush Alaska so I had a lot of extra freight charges which were included in my costs above.

It took about 2 months working evenings and weekends. But alot of times just waiting on parts. It was fun and I learned alot. The nice thing about it is everything is practicly new firewall forward.

One of the reason I didnt op for a C180 is my airplane is FAA Capstone equiped. I dont know if all of you are familiar with the program but it consists of an Apollo MX 20 MFD, GX60 GPS/COM and a UAT transmitter/reciever for wx,terrain, and collision avoidance. Pretty neat system. Also have alot of other mods- 180 gear, 1 pc wind shield, BAS shoulder harnesses, Atlee Dodge folding rear seats, tail pull handles, STOL kit with leading edge cuff , fences, and tips, float and ski kits, scott tail wheel, and a marine VHF. I think I listed everything. So you can see I had alot into it already but not enough power, especially on floats.

Well enough rambling for now, If you have any questions feel free and i will update once I get some time on the franklin and see exactly what it can do. I dont think I will be dissap[ointed. And one last thing-- talk about smoooooth.

Brandon Leary

Bethel, Alaska

[icepilot]

Will do Tim. I am planning a trip this spring to have a new intercom system installed by Galena Avionics if The Tax man doesnt hit me to hard.

Brandon

[zero.one.victor]

I'm just an "outsider", but I thought Galena was quite a ways west of Fairbanks. The only reason I've ever even heard of Galena is that a friend of mine from here in Port Townsend just took a flying job there. Her name is Monika, & she owns a yellow & white A model. She was working in Ketchikan and had her airplane there, I kinda heard she was gonna take it on up to Galena with her.
If any of you Alaskans bump into her, tell her I said hi. And be sure & give her a good old 170'er welcome. (PS-- she's real cute )

Eric

[mit]

I'm just an "outsider", but I thought Galena was quite a ways west of Fairbanks. The only reason I've ever even heard of Galena is that a friend of mine from here in Port Townsend just took a flying job there. Her name is Monika, & she owns a yellow & white A model. She was working in Ketchikan and had her airplane there, I kinda heard she was gonna take it on up to Galena with her.
If any of you Alaskans bump into her, tell her I said hi. And be sure & give her a good old 170'er welcome. (PS-- she's real cute )

Eric

Galena isn't far, tell her to give me a call when she is in town. Im in the book. I don't have a reason to go to Galena maybe she can give me one

[icepilot]

Yes theres a city named Galena, west of Fairbanks on the Yukon River but there is also a company in Fairbanks called Galena Avionics thats done some radio work for me in the past. A one man operation that does great work.

Brandon Leary

[mit]

Yes theres a city named Galena, west of Fairbanks on the Yukon River but there is also a company in Fairbanks called Galena Avionics thats done some radio work for me in the past. A one man operation that does great work.

Brandon Leary

Yes he does. He has an impeccable reputation.