take-offs

[Jeff Nunan]

I have been flying a 1948 C170. I was taught to take off by pushing the yoke forward (raising the tail) then pulling back slightly on the yoke when the appropriate speed was felt. After several hours of flying, I still have difficulty keeping the plane on the center line. I read where some C-170 pilots give it full throttle, keep the yoke all the way back and simply let the plane fly off by itself. Any comments on what might be the best method for take-offs?

Thanks, JNunan

[JJH55]

Jeff, When I transitioned to my 170 I had the same problem. There were many times the windshield filled with the green parts of the airport and I started to think that landing wasn't going to be the big challenge in taming the 170. A friend/CFI of mine shared the following technique that has always worked well for me and made takeoffs much less exciting. Its almost too simple once you get used to leaving your hands off of the the yoke!! Assuming there is no crosswind, try this: Trim for t/o and lined up on the runway, remove your hands from the yolk. Slowly open the throttle, slowly meaning from idle to full power taking 10 seconds. On rollout, keep the nose straight by stabbing the rudder with short jabs as apposed to a continuous input. The elevator will come to neutral on its own before the tail starts to fly, dont touch it! Once the tail finally comes up and is flying, put your hands on the yoke and gently hold (very light) backpressure. Maybe only a half or quarter inch and hold what you have. Before you know it your off and can relax. Piece of cake! I cant think of any reason to "push" the tail up before its ready to fly but if you do, be ready with your feet! Good Luck!
JJH55

[mrpibb]

Jeff,
As I am a new pilot and a newer tailwheel pilot and just finished getting my checkout this is how I have been taking off in my 48. On brakes release I hold the yoke full back as I apply full power, then as I roll I give a long five count then ease off on the yoke (this way I don't get the yoke pumping ) , by this time the airplane is moving fast enough to pretty much fair the elevator. Shortly there after I find that the tail will rise and when the airplane reaches to a slightly tail low attitude I very slightly push on the yoke to bring the tail up a little higher, and as the speed increases I start easing back on the yoke and at that point I usually break ground. The reason I take of this way is that some of the grass fields I go into are not smooth and if I take off with a tail low attitude and as the airplane gets light I get bounced several times into the air before I have flying speed, and I'm finding as the days get warmer when I do the tail low take offs, I'm finding just moments before the airplane is ready to fly and being light on the gear a crosswind makes for a real workout of those 140 size ailerons. But as I state I'm new to this and learning each time I go flying, heck probably I'll read this a year from now and have a totaly differant view on the subject. I haven't flow any A or B models so I can't speak for them but I starting to understand my Ragwing more each flight and I tell you that It's easy to impress people with 3 point langings, heck I still impress myself the 170 makes it seem too easy.
Vic

[Doug Echelberger]

Jeff,

I found myself doing the same think when my dad and I purchased a 52 B model. I could not figure out why every time I lifted the tail I was on my way to the weeds. Come to find out at the first annual that the shims at the wheel were put in backwards. After fixing the problem, no more problem staying on center. May be something to check.

Doug

[4-Shipp]

In my '53 B, I have found that TOs are a lot smoother with one notch of flaps. Yes, I realize that this has minimal effect on directional control, but it does significantly reduce the back pressure needed to rotate and become airborne. I don't know it the straight flaps on the ragwing or an A model would have the same effect or not. The bottom line is keep practicing, and try different techniques to learn how YOUR aircraft performs! Good luck!

Bruce

[zero.one.victor]

Jeff, I usually let the tail kinda come up by itself, I do help it when I have a load in back. with regards to the centerline,I found 2 little tricks seemed to help me when I was a new tailwheel pilot.
1) keep your vision focussed on centerline,but at the far end of the runway.
2) keep pressure on both rudder pedals,increasing/decreasing pressure left & right as appropriate(sometimes very rapidly,what I call "the rudder dance"). Sort of an isometric thing. Makes it easier to avoid over-correcting & chasing the swerves,as opposed to "stabbing" right or left rudder.
Hang in there,it'll get easier with time. That's what everybody keeps telling me anyways,I'm still waiting........

Eric

[doug8082a]

What you have during the take off roll is a situation where the aircraft is going through a constant state of change. I like to answer the plane’s movement with the same degree of correction. You hear about the “dance”, but I prefer to think of it as a waltz (or maybe a tango) rather than a tap-dance. Don’t over correct or provide input just because you think you should. Answer the plane’s movement (maybe with just a slight anticipation).

A couple things I use during takeoff:
1. As Eric said, keep you eyes focused on the center line as far down the runway as possible. This will allow you to notice any deviation from a straight run early.
2. Keep the center line between your legs
3. Correct any deviation from a straight track early. The longer you wait to correct them the bigger the correction needs to be and the more you end up “chasing” the plane.

My usual takeoff method:
1. When I apply power and start the take off roll, I apply just enough right rudder to keep it tracking straight (imagine pushing on the accelerator pedal in your car as you drive down the highway).
2. I apply back pressure to keep control over the tailwheel until the rudder becomes effective.
3. My tail will come off the ground at 45 mph indicated. As I approach this speed, I gradually relax the back pressure until the elevator is neutral.
4. As the tail comes off the ground I increase right rudder to account for the change in attitude (imagine pushing on the accelerator pedal in your car as you pull out to pass someone on the highway).
5. Once the tail is up, I relax right rudder, maintaining only enough to keep it tracking straight.
6. My ‘52 will fly of at 65 mph indicated. As I reach this speed I gently increase back pressure and let the plane fly off on its own.

Good luck.

[dacker]

Jeff, one thing that may be causing you to swerve is the gyroscopic effect of the propeller as you rotate forward. You may remember that from your flight training days. As you rotate the airplane forward you will experience more left turning tendency along with the P-factor. Conversely when doing wheel landings when you set the tail down you will experience a swerve to the right. I think what Eric and Doug suggested along with anticipating the small swerve to the left and lots of practice will help you the most. Smooth control movements count here. I don't think I agree though with letting go of the yoke, YOU are in control of the airplane, think of it as a stubborn horse, MAKE it go where you want it and accept nothing less than putting it exactly where you want it.
You might also check that your rudder chains have enough tension to facillitate positive steering.
I still have excursions occasionally, but it is usually from not putting in enough crosswind correction, or not anticipating.
Hope my two cents help.
David

[Roesbery]

My first C-170 was a stock 52 B with the soft legs. Learned that in any kind of crosswind that I had to get the tail up and anchor the tires to the runway until it was ready to fly. Otherwise it would start skipping sideways off the runway or one wing would want to fly before the other. Either of which would send you into the brush. Working off runways as wide as the gear meant being positive about where the plane was at all times. With the 53 and 55 and the stiffer gear I've never had one wing want to fly before the other, but a crosswind will push them sidewise as they reach flying speed if they are not solidly held on the ground till they will positively fly.

[GAHorn]

I'm not comfortable letting the yoke "go' but I see JJH55's logic as re: the technique he's espousing.
I recommend this:
First center your elevator trim and inspect the right elevator to make certain it's exactly faired neutral.
Next sit in the cockpit and look back at the elevator and notice when the elevator is neutral...where your yoke is. (I'll bet your knuckles are right next to the forward doorpost or ashtray area.) Try to remember this position.
On takeoff roll, start out with your nose pointed ever so slightly right of centerline. By the time your rudder becomes effective you'll be more closely aligned due to P-factor and gyroscopic precession of the propellor disc.
Lastly, begin the takeoff roll with the yoke full back/elevator full nose up. As you begin to see indicated airspeed move your yoke to the formerly observed neutral position. The relative wind will begin to hold the elevator in this neutral position all by itself at the same time the rudder becomes fully effective. (Well,... DOH!)
At this point, simply apply a slight back pressure to the yoke and the airplane will lightly ascend! Yeaaaaaayyyyyy!
Notice another thing. If you delay application of back-pressure the nose will drop toward the horizon...and a few moments later...it will make a SECONDARY drop even further towards the horizon. At this point you definitely need to pull the airplane off the ground. I use this secondary indication when I'm heavily loaded to begin rotation.
Try it, and I'll bet you like it.

[dacker]

Jeff, ole Gahorn's technique sounds pretty good, but just remember things happen a lot slower in his shiny little bent wing!
David