TCAS - Collision Avoidance

Kyle Wolfe · Post by **Kyle Wolfe** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:38 pm

Anyone using any of the portable collision avoidance systems? How well do they work? Are they a help or hinderance?

I see there are several portables on the market. I file IFR as often as possible, but enjoy an evening flight as often as I can. While we're not in a major traffic area it only takes one other guy at the wrong time/wrong place to ruin your day!

Comments?

Kyle

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:31 am

TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170. TCAS, Cessna 170.

Nope, they just don't fit in the same sentence.

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:12 am

Well Kyle, I tend to agree with Bruce here. I have all the "gizmos" in the cockpit at work, and can tell you that they do a lot to keep your eyes in the cockpit. I believe that you would be better off to keep an ear to the radio and your eyes scanning outside. The more "stuff" we stuff into our cockpits, the more our outside visual scan will suffer. A recent trend in NASA research shows that pilots flying with advanced cockpits are having more clearance deviations because their attention is becoming fixated on the electronics at the expense of proper flight management. I think we will soon see this start to bite some low time pilots in these new SR22s and C-182s with glass space shuttle cockpits! If I were you, I'd save the hundred dollar bills for an engine overhaul and fly with my eyes doing a quick scan of the simple panel and then outside to enjoy the lovely view our simple C-170s give us without all the sqwauking bells and whistles

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:36 am

I believe it was Aviation consumer where I read reports on the two most popular "Portable" traffic - alert (their not truly TCAS) devices.
The reports were not flattering. No specific azimuth or RA capabilities. Think of them as not being particularly consistent, and when they do go off they don't report "traffic at 2 o'clock, one mile, 500 feet above, closing"
They report more like "Traffic somewhere, near I think, above (or below) you!" Their range was not consistent, not just between units, but between actual aircraft conficts. (These things work by sensing other aircraft's transponder replies to ATC. A strong unit in an airliner a long ways off can appear like a weak Gen.Aviaion unit up close. )
Unit with the sexy female voice is not exactly compact. It's big. Huge even, because it' uses flashlight batteries and the case must be large to accomodate them even if you intend to use ship's power. Which brings up another issue.
Just how many cigar-lighter cords are we supposed to put up with anyway?
I lost interest in them after reading the consumer reports.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:03 am

I've been using a TCAS in my 170 for years. It's called a Mark One Eyeball. Works great,except you have to keep it peeled & outside the airplane a majority of the time.
Most of them new-fangled TCAS thangs work by detecting transponder signals,right? What about that old-fangled J-3 Cub on a suicide mission? He's still gonna getcha if you don't utilize the old Mark One!

Eric

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:44 pm

zero.one.victor wrote:I've been using a TCAS in my 170 for years. It's called a Mark One Eyeball. Works great,except you have to keep it peeled & outside the airplane a majority of the time.
Most of them new-fangled TCAS thangs work by detecting transponder signals,right? What about that old-fangled J-3 Cub on a suicide mission? He's still gonna getcha if you don't utilize the old Mark One!

Eric

Doesn't that tend to dry out the eye pretty much? What kind of eyedrops do you use?

Kyle Wolfe · Post by **Kyle Wolfe** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:41 am

I agree that it's best to keep certain things peeled - eyeballs being one of them!

I too am of the opinion that it's one more gizmo, more batteries to die, more stuff on the dash, and one more distraction to divert attention. And I too understand that it's only good for transponder equiped a/c.

That's why I'll continue to file IFR for much of my x-country stuff (besides trying to stay current with the system) and continue to enjoy the sights when just plane flying.

Knew I'd get some quick responses and glad to see that they are in agreement with what I was feeling.

Kyle

mrpibb · Post by **mrpibb** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:27 pm

I think what was ment was TAS not TCAS which is now TCAS II, TCAS II requires all participating A/C to have tcas proccesors, mode S trandsponders, omni and directional antennas and cockpit displays fo TA and RA alerts. all of which would put my airplane overgross. The TAS systems I think are just like radar detectors picking up transponder replys from other a/c which leads me to belive that you could fly into a formation of non transponder equipt a/c and you wouldnt get a beep out of it. I believe that thet TAS can only give TA's ( TA = traffic alert, RA = resolution alerts). But if a TAS gives you the warm fuzzys go for it, Heck I finally just got me a gps, got tired of getting new sectionals everytime I went on a cross country because of all the pencil line from triangulations for position fixes.

Bored at work with nothin better to to
Vic

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:54 am

Well, I just posted a lengthy response on how great the Monroy ATD-200 is (I've had mine almost three years now) and got a invalid session! Yikes! Short version - I love mine, and now have the latest one, the ATD-300. If you live in a high density area it is a valuable gadget, absolutely! BTW, it doesn't use batteries. When I recover from my latest US Airways adventure (eight inches of snow in Charlotte!) I'll re-post. I believe I'm the only one here that actually has experience with the thing. If you live in a busy area, don't rule it out, by any means...Russ Farris

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:28 am

After reading some of the replies, I'm invigorated again to respond about using my Monroy ATD-200 for almost three years and now my new ATD-300.

First, I live near Charlotte, NC - the main hub of my glorious employer, US Airways. I fly the Airbus A-320, fully equipped with TCAS, of course. In fact, I flew the very first test units on a Piedmont 727 back in 1987, with Mr. Monroy himself monitoring, as a Honeywell engineer.

I think this unit is a geniune contribution to safety - if you live in an area with a lot of traffic. Here's why. When it sounds a traffic alert, it gets you out of whatever you are doing - fiddling with the GPS, looking at the oil pressure or just flying the airplane, and LOOKING for other traffic. Contrary to what you may have read here and Aviation Consumer, transponder signal strength is not as critical as they would have you believe. Once alerted, traffic is almost always spotted. The new ATD gives you an approximate digital range and the altitude plus or minus from you.

Mainly, I want to respond to the negatives here about this unit - I thought enough of it to get the new one, after all. It's not perfect, but after 17 years of TCAS equipped airplanes I consider it to be far from a useless device. In fact, when I fly a light airplane without it, I miss it. I'd rather have one instead of ADF or DME (in a GPS airplane), that's for sure.

More to come when I get some rest...Russ Farris

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:32 am

Hey, Russ!
Thanks for the personal testimonial! (I'll bet the old man who was flying your airplane back in Oklahoma would heartily endorse the device!)

Here's a link to a descriptive/photographic avionics website that details the features/prices of units currently available. (This link is offered not as an endorsement of the website owner, but as an information link.)
http://avionix.com/collis.html