C170 Serial Numbers

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doug8082a
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C170 Serial Numbers

Post by doug8082a »

I received an early Christmas present of an Aviation Legends 2003 calendar the other day and upon opening it I realized that someone had the good sense to include a C170 as one of the aircraft (March). I was reading the stats on the plane (listed as a 1952 170B) and I noticed the serial number of 25239 and I thought, "That's odd, the C170 Book has the 1952 serial numbers ending at 24999." So I cross checked it against the Illustrated Parts Manual and noticed that, according to the parts manual, the serial numbers for 1952 seem to end at 25372, so I said "OK, the C170 book has a discrepancy". So I hopped on the web and ran the serial number of the plane and it is indeed registered as a 1952 C170B. Then I decided to see what other C170s might be registered with similar serial numbers. After reviewing Serial numbers 25229-25249 (10 to either side of the above mentioned a/c) I came up with a total of five 1952 C170Bs (s/n 25231, 25232, 25233, 25239, & 25248). But I also found something else, a 1953 C170B with s/n 25240 and a 1957 C170B with s/n 25246.

So, my question to those of you who possess the more arcane C170 knowledge is, how is it that a 1953 and a 1957 C170 can have serial numbers in a range used by the 1952 series? According to the C170 Book, the 1953s had s/ns of 25373-26038 and the 1957s aren't given any in the book, but would presume to come after 27169 which is the last of the 1956s (according to the book).

OK, it's a dry topic, but it really got me curious. Any thoughts?
Doug
N1277D
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Post by N1277D »

The FAA database has numerious errors in it. My 1951 170A was listed as a 170B untill I sent the change in.
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GAHorn
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Re: C170 Serial Numbers

Post by GAHorn »

doug8082a wrote:I received an early Christmas present of an Aviation Legends 2003 calendar the other day and upon opening it I realized that someone had the good sense to include a C170 as one of the aircraft (March). I was reading the stats on the plane (listed as a 1952 170B) and I noticed the serial number of 25239 and I thought, "That's odd, the C170 Book has the 1952 serial numbers ending at 24999." So I cross checked it against the Illustrated Parts Manual and noticed that, according to the parts manual, the serial numbers for 1952 seem to end at 25372, so I said "OK, the C170 book has a discrepancy". So I hopped on the web and ran the serial number of the plane and it is indeed registered as a 1952 C170B. Then I decided to see what other C170s might be registered with similar serial numbers. After reviewing Serial numbers 25229-25249 (10 to either side of the above mentioned a/c) I came up with a total of five 1952 C170Bs (s/n 25231, 25232, 25233, 25239, & 25248). But I also found something else, a 1953 C170B with s/n 25240 and a 1957 C170B with s/n 25246.

So, my question to those of you who possess the more arcane C170 knowledge is, how is it that a 1953 and a 1957 C170 can have serial numbers in a range used by the 1952 series? According to the C170 Book, the 1953s had s/ns of 25373-26038 and the 1957s aren't given any in the book, but would presume to come after 27169 which is the last of the 1956s (according to the book).

OK, it's a dry topic, but it really got me curious. Any thoughts?
First of all, there were no 1957 170's at all. The last was produced in '56. So that was a typographical error, and according to serial number it is in reality a '52 model.
Secondly, like automobile mfr's, the FAA assigns an aircraft "year" as when it rolls off the assembly line. Serial numbers, however, are correctly recorded in The 170 Book according to model years. Example: My 170B, N146YS is serial number 25713, and is a 1953 model, with all the correct features of a '53 model including improved cabin heat/cabin ventilation, pressure-cowl engine cooling, etc. (In fact, since it's subsequent to sn: 25612 it also has the correct narrow-ankle "lady-legs" landing gear.) But since it came off the assy line in Nov '52 the FAA claims it (and records it on it's registration certificate) as a '52.
doug8082a
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Post by doug8082a »

OK, I know I'm probably going to sound like a nit-picking pain in the @$$, but don't take it that way. I guess 15 years in the Information Technology field has turned me into someone who can't let go of something if I have two sources of information that are supposed to jive, but don't (or at least, don't seem to). So, what this information geek is trying to reconcile is the TIC170A Cessna 170 Book (Fourth Edition) and the Cessna Illustrated Parts Catalog.

In looking at components unique to the '52 model year (such as the instrument panel) the IPC on page 68 fig. 37 states that those components apply to s/n 20267-25372. Since 1952 was the only "B" model year to have these parts, one would deduce that the aforementioned s/n's apply to the 1952 model year. That being the case, the Cessna 170 Book seems to have a discrepancy since it lists (on page 10) the 1952 s/n's as 20267-24999.

Also, George, you stated that there were no 1957's at all. If so, why does the Cessna 170 Book state (on page 10) that thirty six (36) C170s were produced in 1957? I can't imagine that the folks that put this book together would let that in without some sort documentation to support it.

The Cessna 170 Book also acknowledges some disparity in the numbers in reference to the total number produced. It states that Cessna's sales records show 5136 as being sold, but "another source" indicating that 5171 were produced. Perhaps some of these went overseas and were, therefore, not recorded as "sales"?

Anyway, not trying to be a pain, here. Just chasing down a minor "mystery". :oops:
Doug
Alterfede
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Post by Alterfede »

Folks, the guy im working with in pinamar has a 1957 170, he was a member of ther assoc few years ago, His name is Fernando Roig, and the registration of the plane is LV-FOT, he told me that the people of the assoc couldnt believe either he has a 57 170, when i meet him ill pick the data and send it here. Saludos
Fede Ranea
federanea@yahoo.com.ar
TIC170A #7450
Buenos Aires
LV-FEH 1950 C170A
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mit
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Post by mit »

Alterfede wrote:Folks, the guy im working with in pinamar has a 1957 170, he was a member of ther assoc few years ago, His name is Fernando Roig, and the registration of the plane is LV-FOT, he told me that the people of the assoc couldnt believe either he has a 57 170, when i meet him ill pick the data and send it here. Saludos


I have heard this story before about 1957 170's, there was a story that Cessna pulled a few 172's off the production line in 57 and put 170 gear on them I have some Cessna Info from the late 70s early 80's that shows all models and SNs of everything they have built and it doesn't show any 170s for 57. But I keep hearing that there are 57's out there.
Tim
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

There were no "1957"-model Cessna 170's. There were some airplanes assembled later on from remaining parts, perhaps in '57 and therefore have been so designated by their FAA registrations, and there were some aircraft that left the country and were later re-imported and gained their U.S. registration and original U.S. airworthiness certificates later on. Perhaps that's where some of the discrepancies occur. For example, if you search the FAA database you will find numerous aircraft including ragwings, A and B models, some of whom the FAA has registered as '57 models, when clearly no such animal (as a ragwing '57-model, for example) existed.
With regard to The 170 Book,...it'd be nice if none of us made any mistakes but it just doesn't work out that way. Many of the records have discrepancies that likely will never be resolved due to the lack of interest at the factory, or the outright loss of records in the multiple moves Cessna made. If you look at the serial numbers and the total aircraft claimed mfr'd on that page, you'll see that the numbers don't add up to either number of claimed totals.
With regard to the part numbers vs. the serial numbers,...keep in mind that there are not only year-model changes in this line of aircraft, but that some changes occur within a model year (such as I previously mentioned regarding my landing gear legs.) When ordering parts, be certain to order those parts that are specific to your serial number,....not year model,....and not production year.
doug8082a
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Post by doug8082a »

George, I completely understand and agree with your position on serial numbers vs. model year vs. year of production. Your '53 is a good example of that, as you stated.

I had forgotten about the fact that aircraft being re-imported to the States would gain an Airworthiness Certificate upon their return and, therefore, could show a date of manufacture other than original.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with my anal-retentive ramblings. :roll:
Doug
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

It's not a case of "putting up" or "anal-retentive". I'm in agreement with you that the history of this airplane is interesting and in many cases useful. I wish we could know all there is, but getting historical information out of Wichita is difficult, as unfortunately Cessna is no longer a family business, it's now a gaint multi-national, defense contractor named Textron (formerly General Dynamics) who is more interested in airpla...., er,...I mean "product", ...that generate profits measured in Million$ rather than in thou$and$. Useful "load" nowadays refers to corporate finance/market issues.
Just pray that one of the "other" (former competitor) subsidiaries doesn't send Cessna division into extinction with their crankshaft problems.
I'm ready to consider TIC170A buying the type certificate and going back into production. (Just kidding, Dale.) :wink: (Did everyone feel that 2.1 Richter-scale jolt epicentered on Illinois and see the website screen blink and dim just then?) :lol:
N1277D
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Serial Numbers

Post by N1277D »

I managed to extract from the FAA database a list of all the C170s registered to the FAA. The records show 2,871 registrations, thus about 1/2 are still flying from the orginal production numbers.

The last C170B in the database is SN 27126, N170BJ with a 1956 production date based in Harrison GA. The smallest SN is 18004 N2501V 1948 located in Kent WA. The FAA's first 170A still listed is SN18730 N3843V 1949 located in Cartersville GA. The FAA's first 170B still listed is SN 20268 N1626D 1952 located in San Antonio TX.

Here is a listing of the first record for each year in the FAA Data Base

C170 1948 SN 18002 N2501V Kent, WA
C170A 1949 SN 18730 N3843V Cartersville, GA
C170A 1950 SN 19200 N9739A Yakima WA
C170A 1951 SN 19828 N5735C Whichita, KS
C170B 1952 SN 20268 N1626D San Antonio, TX
C170B 1953 SN 25427 N3185B Fairbanks, AK
C170B 1954 SN 26151 N2507C Casa Grande, AZ
C170B 1955 SN 26628 N3584C Crestline, CA
C170B 1956 SN 27073 N3530D Gildford, MT
jon s blocker
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Post by jon s blocker »

Try to tell the feds a 2003 car manufactured in 2002 is NOT a 2003. If a C172 was manufactured in '56, then taken off the line and converted to 170 configuration at the factory and sold in 57 as a 170, then it is a '57 170, or, was this never done?
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n2582d
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Re: C170 Serial Numbers

Post by n2582d »

Resurrecting an old thread here. I just posted SK182-4 "Right Wing Rear Spar Reinforcement" and Service Letter SL 170/172-6. Of the aircraft affected by this Service Letter I found the following C-170B's still around that this applies to: N170ER (s/n27107), N3565D (s/n 27108), N3566D (s/n 27109), N3571D (s/n 27114), N3573D (s/n 27116), and N3579D (s/n 27122). It would be interesting to hear if any of these have record of this Service Kit being complied with. For you non-members who don't have access to these documents the Service Letter ends with, "Because of the importance of this modification, it is recommended that the kit be installed as soon as possible." (Underlining theirs'). Join up now or fly wondering what could be so critical to flight safety! :wink:

Why I bring this up though is that when researching this I found that most of the 170's in the s/n range affected, (27107-27116 and 27120-27124), had their registration cancelled by Cessna. Most were cancelled on or around June 8, 1956. First, why would Cessna issue a Service Kit listing all these aircraft that they hadn't yet sold? Second, what happened to these aircraft? Earlier in this thread there was talk about 172's being converted to 170's. Based on this evidence it seems more likely that 170's were converted to 172's. The Service Letter indicates three 170's were repaired at Cessna. The majority that were not repaired must have been sitting on their lot outside the factory. If these were converted to 172's did this repair ever happen to them? In my dreams they were never converted but still are gathering dust in some long forgotten warehouse in Wichita (after being dipped in Cosmoline of course!) :lol:

On the subject of the original thread, the last 170B that is listed on the FAA's database - at least that I could find - is s/n 27133. Its was deregistered by Cessna on October 17, 1956. That means the last seven 170's were produced but not sold ... as 170's at least. Or maybe not in the United States?
Last edited by n2582d on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary
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Ryan Smith
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Re: C170 Serial Numbers

Post by Ryan Smith »

27157 lives in Washington state.

27169 lives in Italy and carries a German registration.
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n2582d
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Re: C170 Serial Numbers

Post by n2582d »

Interesting Ryan. Kind of takes the "serial" out of serial number when there is no record of s/n 27156, 27158, 27168, or 27170 in the FAA database.
Gary
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n2582d
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A bad day at Cessna

Post by n2582d »

I ran across this while delving into FAA registration data. A very bad day at Cessna.
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Wish they would have added serial numbers to the corresponding N numbers. My guess is these planes — three C-170s, the rest C-140s — were destroyed on July 14, 1948.
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Gary
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