New to me 170b

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alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

I was looking for a inexpensive vfr only plane and found a 170b nearby. Bought it and had it ferried to the hangar.

Didn’t know much about them before purchasing but flew a early 60s 172 with manual flaps and a o300 so I’d like to think it will be similar. Once travel restrictions loosen hope to fly it next month.

Reading the 337s tonight, it has;

180 gear
Pponk gear box mod
Steel axles with 26 Goodyear’s
3200 with new tailsprings and float lifting eyelets
Dynon efis 10
Dm7652
Alternator conversion

It has the basic mid time o300, but I am at sea level and it’s usually just myself and maybe one other that I fly with.

While it sits in the hangar im having my mechanic install;

Dm7650
Sportsman stol
Removing vacuum and venturis
Extended baggage
Real gasket pushrod seal conversion kit
Autogas stc
Led lighting conversion
McFarlane flap roller upgrade

I would’ve liked a 180, but the draw of autogas sucked me in. I think it’s fairly heavy compared to other 170s I saw when reading w&b, at 1340.

Is there any other mods that should be done while it sits in the hangar? How does the o300 do at sea level on take off when light?

There’s a few nice gravel bars around. I’ve seen the stol competitions with stock birds, but it’s hard to compare since they always seem to pick the windiest days out there.
'53 B-model SN:25712
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GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: New to me 170b

Post by GAHorn »

At 2200 lbs the stock 170 performs really well. Add 200 lbs and it gets slightly underpowered, but still doable. Many of these airplanes are actually operated slightly overweight, I believe, because the WT/Bal is not up to date and empty wts are more than owners know. This leads to opinions of marginal performance. Don’t carry around unnecessary junk in the back... it adds up.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

Thanks for the reply, the airplane was weighed a few years ago. It does have a forward CG issue, but I guess its not uncommon for 170's.
'53 B-model SN:25712
counsellj
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:58 pm

Re: New to me 170b

Post by counsellj »

Congrats on the find. Sounds like you are going to have a good plane. I would seriously look at adding VG's to your Sportsman upgrade. Cheap, easy and effective.

Jughead
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

Thanks, half as fast as my bonanza but looks like it’s just as fun. I’ve seen a few of your YouTube videos, looks like you have some fun adventures out there.
'53 B-model SN:25712
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BeeMan
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:58 pm

Re: New to me 170b

Post by BeeMan »

I would have your mechanic add a V brace, which is readily available from Atlee Dodge. If or when you get to off airport ops you will be glad you did. You might also think about adding ski brackets so you can try ski flying at some point. It is a hoot.
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

gahorn wrote:At 2200 lbs the stock 170 performs really well. Add 200 lbs and it gets slightly underpowered, but still doable. Many of these airplanes are actually operated slightly overweight, I believe, because the WT/Bal is not up to date and empty wts are more than owners know. This leads to opinions of marginal performance. Don’t carry around unnecessary junk in the back... it adds up.
From reading your signature, looks like our birds came out of the factory pretty close together.
'53 B-model SN:25712
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

BeeMan wrote:I would have your mechanic add a V brace, which is readily available from Atlee Dodge. If or when you get to off airport ops you will be glad you did. You might also think about adding ski brackets so you can try ski flying at some point. It is a hoot.
I think I will order this, I have a one piece windshield on order, but plan to install this Fall, I would eventually like to get this bird out of the hangar and back into the air.

I installed the Atlee Dodge firewall battery, I disliked the stock lead acid battery and figured if I was replacing the battery might as well save a few pounds.

It has the old pull start starter, is this reliable or should I swap out with a BC/Skytec? My mechanic didn't like it because of the extra mass but I figure if it has been working for 60 years it probably wont give me any issues.
'53 B-model SN:25712
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ghostflyer
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Re: New to me 170b

Post by ghostflyer »

Because your starter has been working for the last sixty years is not a guarantee that it will continue working for the next 60 years . It’s getting old like the rest of us .have it checked over . I have been doing some research on the weight of all Cessna 170,s and presently the mean average weight is 1350lbs. My aircraft is 1432lbs which is a little high as I Have cleaned out all the junk and stuff that maybe one day I could need if I break down . Most of the stuff I carried for 10 years plus and never needed them. But my aircraft is still full of toys and trinkets [STC,s and DER,s] that I use for flight . [sometimes]. So that’s why I am a little heavy. Yes I have a C OF G forward problem ,it’s right on the line .
But It’s still a lot of fun, with thrills and adventure.
My source of information for weight of aircraft is trolling through this web site and other web sites and actuals.
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GAHorn
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Re: New to me 170b

Post by GAHorn »

ghostflyer wrote:Because your starter has been working for the last sixty years is not a guarantee that it will continue working for the next 60 years . It’s getting old like the rest of us .have it checked over . I have been doing some research on the weight of all Cessna 170,s and presently the mean average weight is 1350lbs. ...My source of information for weight of aircraft is trolling through this web site and other web sites and actuals.
Your sources are like computer input... Junk IN and you get junk OUT. The information gleaned from anecdotes here are no more accurate than the (likely) inaccurate beliefs the owners have in the airplanes that have not undergone an actual RE-WEIGHING in many years.

As for the original Delco-Remy starters: I doubt he meant his starter had not undergone service in 60 years. The DESIGN is 60 years dependable. (Maybe more actually as it very closely copies old farm tractors and early foot-operated automobile-starters.)

I LIKE the Delco-Remy starter setup, not only because it is original, but also because it is rugged. If you want to expose oneself to starter-troubles ... find yourself in Timbuktu and see which old hangar worker knows how to fix a “lightweight starter”. The lightweight starters are copies of Asian-import-car starters, and they do NOT hold up to long-operating/overheating abuse. While the B&C has a better reputation than “the other one” (keeps changing mfr’r location and name), they are favored by newer/younger/parts-replacers mechanics not experienced with in-house starter repair/rebuilding like the old-geezer-mechanics who often actually “fix” things. (That... and the fact they make more money selling you a modification/STC than they do simply fixing your OEM.)

The weakest part of the original starters was the roller-clutch. This device avoids the problem some lightweight starters have of over-running clutch-failure. The roller-clutch original design used 3 rollers which were cam-ed into an internal ramp to engage the outer-shell and impart torque to the crankshaft in order to rotate the engine for start. They work fine and last a long time but were supposed to be inspected/rebuilt or replaced at engine overhaul time.
These engines are (firstly) not usually overhauled.... they are usually “repaired” to resemble overhauls. They don’t actually receive all the attention to details that a true overhauls gets.... for example their starters are often painted black and re-installed. A diligent repairman will actually replace the starter brushes. (Available at auto parts stores for > $5.). A superior repairman will have the starter and clutch overhauled. Those roller clutches should be inspected/repaired/overhauled at the same time the starter is removed for repair. Many times the clutch IS 60 years old having never been properly-replaced/rebuilt! David may be correct in that regard.
Niagara works on those clutches and they also offer an improved 5-roller clutch. The 5-roller version spreads the forces over a larger area (more rollers) and results in more durability. (The weak part of the roller-clutch is the “shell” which restrains the rollers and, after years of abuse can “crack”. This is the most common type failure and the most common reason for rejection of the core when you send it in for inspection/rebuild.)

My opinion favors retaining the original Delco-Remy pull-start over conversion to an aftermarket “lightweight” starter. They are more durable and MUCH less expensive.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
Deputydog
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: New to me 170b

Post by Deputydog »

Congrats on the new bird, sounds like a nice find!
1950 Cessna 170A model
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Vertical
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:41 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by Vertical »

If you want to prioritize stol and gravel bars, you’ll likely want the 80/4x prop.
hilltop170
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: New to me 170b

Post by hilltop170 »

Congrats on the plane, hope you get it back in the air soon.

BAS tail pull handles and Door Stewards are nice to have and will potentially save the plane from damage.

If you are trying to minimize weight, a lot of guys are going with “skeletonized interiors” by removing all of the interior side panels, headliner, heavy rear seat, and reupholstering front seats with lightweight materials.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

Yes it has the BAS handles and the Atlee dodge jump seats. I was considering removing the interior panels and zinc coating it and glueing in foam, not sure how much weight it will save since it already has just vinyl cloth panels in the rear.
'53 B-model SN:25712
alaskan9974
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New to me 170b

Post by alaskan9974 »

Finally got it up and out of the hangar. Love how smooth the little continental is.
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'53 B-model SN:25712
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