How to install a Baggage Door?

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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wingnut
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by wingnut »

David,
The first one I did was on George Horn's 170B. It took me 28 hours. The second one took me 35 hours. I know, that is going backward but I've done a couple since and hours can vary. In hindsight I don't believe a good result can be achieved in less than 28 hours. I credit Beginners Luck. The primary reasons for the additional hours are interior considerations and fitment of parts. On George's plane, we sourced an early 172 door/frame assembly that fit exceptionally well. All the others were from later or other models and had rivet hole alignment issues that took time to remedy. And then there are the small details such as the latch style, spring thingymajig, interior and exterior paint/polish, seal, interior matching and etc. If you are paying someone else to do this, 40 hours is not out of line for a very complete and nice job.
Del Lehmann
Mena, Arkansas
bagarre
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by bagarre »

Thanks!
My dad and I will be doing it. I'm just trying to figure out if a week's vacation is enough time :)
Paint is an issue as the door cuts across all four colors on the plane and we don't have a single paint code. We were able to match the white pretty well but we're still working on the blue, red and silver.

After reading the STC, I understand the procedure. It seems the real time consumer is making hole fit the door properly. Lots of trim and fit and finish filing.

I'll try to take as many photos as I can and maybe even do an article for it.
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GAHorn
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by GAHorn »

wingnut wrote:David,
The first one I did was on George Horn's 170B. It took me 28 hours. The second one took me 35 hours. I know, that is going backward....
RED ones ALWAYS GO FASTER! :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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wingnut
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by wingnut »

gahorn wrote:
wingnut wrote:David,
The first one I did was on George Horn's 170B. It took me 28 hours. The second one took me 35 hours. I know, that is going backward....
RED ones ALWAYS GO FASTER! :lol:
Waiting for someone to pick up on that. Who knew it'd be you :wink:
Del Lehmann
Mena, Arkansas
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minton
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by minton »

bagarre wrote:So, how would you describe how much of the plane you need to a person with a sawza and a baggage door for sale.
I have someone willing to 'cut out the door' for me but I want to make sure I get what I need.

Is a general statement of "Six inches all around" safe enough?

David
Those inclined to buy a "Sawzall" removed part should be there to supervise as you will need to walk away with "At Least" the lower half of the station 90 bulkhead plus the other parts. This will ensure you get that 90 doubler. Look closely before cutting and get it all. New parts from Cessna could kill the deal! LOL
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GAHorn
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by GAHorn »

You need THIS much:

Image
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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blueldr
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by blueldr »

When I installed my baggage door, I used some heavy construction paper to make an exact pattern of the door so as to mark the fuselage in the eact outline of the door to be installed. It was a great aid in final trimming.
BL
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edbooth
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by edbooth »

blueldr wrote:When I installed my baggage door, I used some heavy construction paper to make an exact pattern of the door so as to mark the fuselage in the eact outline of the door to be installed. It was a great aid in final trimming.
I did this too. I also made a large template to capture the position of the surrounding rivets to help get the exact position of the door. (Caution, the rivit patterns do vary a little from airframe to airframe).
Ed Booth, 170-B and RV-7 Driver
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n2582d
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by n2582d »

minton wrote:Well, after much searching the correct part number for sta. 90 bulkhead assy. WITH BAGGAGE DOOR has been verified as 0512113-9 this includes the half bulkhead reinforment that I have been mentioning in previous posts. This is probably but not verified as the same as 074211-1 or a close match which is used in later float plane kit installations. NON door bulkhead p/n is 0512113.

I am in the process of verifying with Cessna Corp. and my PMI as to the inclusion of said bulkhead in any after market baggage door kits. In my opinion, if not, ACO's and DER engineers could and should reveiw their STC's for any potential need for updates/revisions to their kits.

At some point down the road I expect the FAA will issue something on the subject.

Now, as per my PMI, you can "Upgrade" your STC by the installation of said bulkhead being within the same catagory of airframe and it only requires a logbook sign off referencing the STC and IPC part number. The down side? Finding referenced bulkhead as a used part. This is where I have suggested to persons contemplating that potential installation by STC and searching for parts, insist on buying the sta. 90 bulkhead assy. with the other baggage door parts when they are removed from salvaged birds as it would be the -9 part. If you use that appoach then you don't need to order one from Cessna as a Made to Order (MTO) part costing big bucks or looking elsewhere such as salvge yards, or C-180's with float kits.

As for you that have installations without, well it's you and your AI's call I guess. :?:

As an asside if you do install this referenced bulkhead you eliminate two C-170 float kit parts (0541132 & 0541132-1) as they are now not needed!

Fly safe :D

Just my humble, but informed opinion! :D
Found this elusive half bulkhead online recently. For the record, the surrounding frame from a C-172B that came with my baggage door did not have the remnants of this half bulkhead. So, for the s/n of my baggage door donor at least, fig. 45A from the 56-62 C-172 IPC is not accurate in this regard.
A529D847-1E52-4DCC-9367-7BEA1F45B6EE.jpeg
C9F9DAA8-99D6-4EF3-8FE2-59917F8D0E79.jpeg
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56-62 C-172 IPC fig. 45A
56-62 C-172 IPC fig. 45A
Gary
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rnealon1
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by rnealon1 »

Hi All,

Trying to backtrack my weight and balance. On the Del-Air baggage door it says weight 2 pounds. The weight and balance in the logbook subtracts 2 pounds...is it an increase or decrease?

Thanks,

Bob
Bob Nealon

Southbury, CT
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c170b53
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by c170b53 »

If it’s added weight it would add to your aircraft’s empty weight . The door install would have a weight and arm calculation, a positive value to be included in determination of the C of G point weight and balance calculation.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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c170b53
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by c170b53 »

I guess most of the weight added would be the two hinges and lock but I would have thought the weight increase less than 2 lbs.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Here is the rub against most W&B work sheets an or log entries. They don't document the true story. Baggage door install requires the removal of some material such as the fuselage skin. That would be indicated in any sheet with a negative weight at some arm. Then new material such as the new door assembly, and frame is added, this would be a positive weight at some arm. All to often what is actually put on a work sheet or log is the net change and no explanation how it was arrived at. In your entry it seems to indicate more material was removed than installed. Sure doesn't make sense on face. But what if they also removed that old obsolete frame work that use to hold the Narco power supply long forgotten for example or worse yet the frame AND the power supply they found. Your net weight change could be right, the documentation is lacking.

This is why when creating a historical w&B document you almost have to start from the factory records. In my case had I not done that I''d have never discovered I had a stretcher still installed in my aircraft from the factory or the wing leveler I should be finding in the tail sectio. Looking back at your records you might find things installed that where not removed yet they aren't there.

You need to do some detective work. Best you might be able to figure is the mech made a mistake and subtracted the weight when it should have been added. Your first question for this particular thread is, could some folks with a baggage door give you their net weight change with the modification. Maybe adding a baggage door turns out to be a secret method to decrease the weight of your aircraft. :D But I doubt it. Others weight gain or loss could give you a clue what you might be looking for.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

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c170b53
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by c170b53 »

Bruce has valid points, there could be a few wildcards imbedded into a W&B calculation. Bruce, thinking like you, I wondered what came out of the plane when it was cut into to make a plus turn into a minus. Or for a fleeting moment during the recording of the documentation, attention was distracted and a horizontal line never received a vertical line. :)
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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rnealon1
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Re: How to install a Baggage Door?

Post by rnealon1 »

Thanks guys, I had the same thoughts. Material had to be removed before the weight of the door was added. To thicken the plot, I actually have the weight and balance report for the modification; it shows the door weight as positive 2.0 pounds, but subtracts it in the calculation.

I have gone through every logbook entry, 337, and WB report and found a number of additional mistakes such as a new weight and balance calculated based on the wrong previous weight, a weight and balance report that was never included in the running calculation, and of course items that were never showed removed but are not there, and items that are there that were never shown added.

I followed the math and recalculated for all the documented items and ended up with a 7 pound difference. I plan to weigh it and find the real weight.

Would be curious what other folks' door installation shows though.

Thanks again,

Bob
Bob Nealon

Southbury, CT
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