Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continental?

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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N3243A
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Post by N3243A »

Richard,

Dittlinger's shop is at 23140 Live Alder in Peters Creek. He has a pretty complete shop with NDT equipment, specialized engine part machining equipment and tooling. His shop phone number is 688-JUGS (5847).

I will stop in at your place soon and say hi. Are you on Immelman Cir. or Graybill?

Regards, Bruce
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

hilltop170 wrote:With the other features the ECI has, cylinder head temp probe boss, teflon padded rocker arm shaft ends, and exhaust valve rotator, I think it will be the Cermi-nil ECI Titans with the aftermarket O-470/520 style push rod tubes.
Richard

Are you planning on the Real Gaskets brand of pushrod tube retrofit kit? If not, go to http://www.realgaskets.com/files/horizontal.htm and check out the Real Gaskets RG-200PRT-1 PUSHROD TUBE SEAL KIT. Since Real Gaskets claims they can be installed with the cylinder still on the engine, I assume there is no machine work to be done, but I haven't verified this.

At $76.50 per cylinder for the conversion, I chose to stay with the standard set up here, thinking that I could retrofit later if necessary. ECI's rubber seals seem to be a harder compound than those from Superior, and are a MUCH tighter fit on the tube. I also bought all new clamp rings. So far, so good.

FWIW, Continental also offers a similar retrofit kit.

Miles
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hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Bruce- Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been down at Lake Iliamna for the last 4 days. The red salmon are in strong but the run is on the decline now. It was a good one but about a week to 10 days late. They are usually done by the 25th.

Thanks for the info on John Dittlinger. I'll look him up.

Richard
Last edited by hilltop170 on Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Richard Pulley
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1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
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hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Miles-
Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been down at the old fishing hole.

Thanks for the info and web site for the push rod housing tubes. They look pretty straightforward except for the RTV at the cylinder end of the tube. I wonder if that is an RTV gasket or if you have to squirt RTV out of a tube into that area before you seat the tube? I'll visit with the engine builder and get his opinion, he mentioned some brand was the best but I can't recall which one.

I'm sure the rubber compounds are better nowdays but I'm going to bite the bullet and go with the push rod tube retrofit kit. I can remember when I owned this plane back in the 70's and 80's it frequently had oil leaks from the rubber grommet seals and I don't want to go thru that again. The leaks got so bad then and I was so broke then that I bought new seals and cut them with an Exacto knife and bonded them back together with Super Glue instead of paying someone to do it right and pull the jug. Come to think of it, I never had to replace the Super Glue'd ones again. I know the statute of limitations has run out on that one by now.

Richard
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
kloz
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Post by kloz »

I have over 1000 hours on ECI cylinders and no leaks at all from the push rod tubes. FWIW
Carl
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Carl-
Thanks for the info on the ECIs. 1000+ hours is a pretty good run. Are you satisfied with their performance? Steel or nickel-carbide bores? Any problems along the way?
Richard
Richard Pulley
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1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
kloz
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Post by kloz »

I have the steel bore. They tell me that is what you want if you fly quite a bit. If your airplane sets a lot I have been told you need chrome.

My compressions are always above 75. I go more than 25 hrs between adding oil.

I am happy with these cylinders. I am not going to say that they will not fail, but I feel good about them. As of now if I had to put new cylinders on I would use ECI's. My engine is a 4 cylinder. Don't know what effect having one in the middle would have. Just make sure you have all the baffles and that they are install correct.
Carl
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Thanks Carl-
I appreciate your comment, that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Glad you are having good luck with the ECIs. I have not heard anything negative about them so far.

I'm going with the nickel-carbide since there will be times when the plane will have to sit for periods of a couple of months hangared in fairly high humidity climate in the Texas hill country. Anything to keep the corrosion down to a minimum.

The baffling will be all new from Airframes in Alaska. They just happened to have a reverse-engineered set made up except for the aft bulkhead and my aft bulkhead was still good enough to reverse-engineer a copy so they now have complete baffle set on CAD for the 170A with the air box as well as the 170B pressure cowl setup.
Richard
Richard Pulley
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1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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KS170A
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by KS170A »

I'm interested to hear what sort of performance the earlier posters to this thread have had with their various cylinders since this thread was last posted to over 6 years ago. I'm facing the decision to overhaul and am debating which way to go (OEM, ECI, etc). From what I've read here, it appears the nickel bores would suit me better since I don't fly all that much. Have the ECI's held up over the years? I also see that TCM has original and "new design" cylinders, though I have not been able to find out what the difference(s) is/are. Thanks for your input!
--Josh
1950 170A
n3833v
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by n3833v »

Unless you don't fly, get coated cylinders. If you fly at all, don't get coated cylinders due to eventual wear/flaking off the cylinder and creating more problems. I have ECI's due to the cost and reputation with no coated cylinders, just steel. I had a problem with one cyl and was treated OK for a replacement, just not the way I thought it should be.

John
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n2582d
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Post by n2582d »

gahorn wrote:Continental. (OEM). They've all had various difficulties with quality control, but TCM is still the best cylinders in my personal opinion. My second choice is Milleniums. ECI has some good ideas but lately their quality control has really suffered. I hope they get it straightened out and can eventually offer us some alternative choices.
Loren Lemen of LyCon also listed Continental as the best cylinders, Superior second and ECI third. He claimed the latter two do not have the casting quality of Continental. Having worked for many years at Continental he may have been a bit biased though.
Last edited by n2582d on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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blueldr
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by blueldr »

I overhauled my C-145 engine with Superior cylinders when thay first came on the market at about half the price of Continentals. Price was the clincher. I had excellent service from the Superior cylinders, and were I to do the same job again, I would do the same.
BL
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GAHorn
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by GAHorn »

WElll.. it may be time to re-fresh this discussion. One of our Members called me today to fill me in on his most recent engine difficulty. He has a valve that's not looking good on an ECI Titan cylinder (nickle) and found that my old favorite recommendation for cylinder-work doesn't do simple repairs anymore due to a claim they find it no longer economical. (J&J Airparts, Pleasanton, TX) They only do complete overhauls or new.

He found a guy in Prosper, TX that would work on his valves. This man reports that he's seen problems with the ECI nickle cylinders "flaking" off their coating. :(
For that reason he is steering our Member away from them, but it's too late as his engine was just completely rebuilt two years ago with them.

I see that Gibson in Oklahoma has a fresh ad in Trade-A-Plane claiming they still do piece-work on cylinders. (I've used Gibson before on my old Baron and they did a good job for me on exchange cylinders.) http://www.gibsonaviationok.com/

Since I've bought a "trainer" 172 which came with a recent overhaul, one of it's new ECI nickle cylinders was replaced prematurely for low compression but no particular mention of the exact problem. It was replaced with a new Superior steel cyl. The engine now has about 800 hrs and all cyls in upper 70s.

Now, ECI is/was bought by Continental who also owns Superior, so it looks like we really have only a single source for new cylinders. I'm not sure we'll see anymore ECI-style cyl anymore, and their big-bore Titans have been slammed with a nasty AD.
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hilltop170
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by hilltop170 »

400 hours on my ECI nickel-carbide cylinders, all in the high 70s at last annual with no known issues so far. Oil consumption 12hrs/qt.

I still have my fingers crossed.
Last edited by hilltop170 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continent

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

There are basically two cylinders still on the market. Continental and Superior. And when I needed and wanted Superior last year there was a huge back log. I waited 3 months for delivery which I ended getting from J&J Airparts. All the suppliers had ample Continental on the shelf and begged me to buy them. They of course could not discount the price, not even to match Superior, which is a cheaper cause it comes with a piston pin. The cost of the pin time 6 adds up.

And to each and every supplier I asked, what would you put on your engine, and all admitted they'd hold out for Superior. I don't know if the back log of superior is a hint of worse things to come but the situation is not good.
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