Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continental?

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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hilltop170
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Which new cylinders are the best? ECI,Superior,Continental?

Post by hilltop170 »

I know, life is all about choices. It's time to buy the new cylinders for my O-300D overhaul and I could sure use some real-world-experience advice. Any comments on operating experiences with the three manufacturers; ECI/Titan, Superior/Millineum, and Continental/new design will be greatly appreciated.

The ECI/Titan cylinders have several new features such as valve rotators on the exhaust, bayonet socket for cylinder head temp probes, and teflon buttons on the rocker shaft ends to prevent wearing of the valve covers.

Continental is offering the O-470/520 style removable pushrod housings with improved seals.

Superior basically says their Millennium cylinders are just better than everybody else's although they only offer sand castings for the O-300, not investment castings.

I welcome hearing about the lifespan or any problems with any of them. Sales pitches are interesting reading but what matters is how the cylinders perform over time.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

Continental. (OEM). They've all had various difficulties with quality control, but TCM is still the best cylinders in my personal opinion. My second choice is Milleniums. ECI has some good ideas but lately their quality control has really suffered. I hope they get it straightened out and can eventually offer us some alternative choices.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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blueldr
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Post by blueldr »

I have had excellent results with Superior cylinders and highly recommend them.
BL
doakes
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Post by doakes »

I had great results from Superior folks- Millenium cylinders.
I had break-in problems that really was my fault, but Superior paid for removal and rehoning,reinstall. Did not really have to out of Warranty but did anyway.
I would recommend them.
Tom Downey
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Post by Tom Downey »

And I have never had any problems with ECI,,,,,,BUT I have had plenty of probs with Superior rocker are bushings giving off brass and ruining 2 different lower ends.. and it took well over a year to settle the $$$$$$.

and they will ruin the bushings in the starter angle drive on your -D, and each bushimg is around $500.00 there are two of them. when you send the angle drive in for ovhl. it will be over the 2 year old price I paid $1200

ECI Titan cylinders have a smoother cylinder grind and they advise Phillips 20 W 55 from day one to TBO no worries about breakin. AND IT WORKS.

I have 6 engines in service with ECIs on them and all had the oil usage stablized by 10 hours, and the oldest has 1900+ hours on it and still goes to oil change to oil change with less than one qt. usage.

Yer old Engine builder says ECI, hands down..
Tom Downey A&P-IA
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

I don't really have enough time (32.6) on my ECI's for a definitive comparison, but I'm happy so far. I used about 3-1/2 quarts of oil on the 22.1 hour round trip to Kelowna and most of that is on the ground between here and there, due to a leaking alternator :x . I am not aware of any quality problems lately with ECI cylinders for the O-200/O-300 cylinders.

Miles
Miles

“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
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N3243A
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Post by N3243A »

Hello hilltop170,

Well from the above, you've got 1 vote for the OEM, 2 for Superior and 2 for ECI. Nothing like a little diversity of opinion....... I just had to make this decision myself and chose ECI Titans. In fact they just got bolted on over the weekend so I haven't broken them in yet. I called a few overhaul shops to see what they were liking best lately and chose ECI.

Per chance are you based on hilltop strip in Peters Creek?

Bruce
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Bruce-

Congratulations, you are the first person in 18 years to figure out my username. Yes, I've been at Hilltop since 1988. I put Anchorage as my location because not many folks know where Peters Creek is. I see you are in Wasilla, which airport are you based at? 1715D is at Mel Wick's shop between Palmer and Wasilla for some restoration work and Mike Patterson is rebuilding the engine. It's time to buy cylinders and it's not an easy choice.

The discussion has been more varied than I thought it would be on the subject of cylinders, but then all three manufacturers are still making them so someone is buying all of them.

I understand there are aftermarket O-470/520 style removable push rod housings available that will fit on any? of the new cylinders. After fighting leaking push rod seals I think I'll go for the new style if they indeed are available.

The next question that comes up is which barrel finish is the best, through-hardened steel or nickel-carbide coated? Any shop can work on the steel barrels but I've heard if the nickel-carbide need work, not all shops have the proper tools for honing, etc. Hopefully any new cylinder will go the distance and not need to be worked on until TBO, but researching the engine postings it seems many folks are having problems with new cylinders. I'm just going to follow the recommended break-in and operating procedures to the letter and hope for the best. ECI sure has a good write-up in their website on how they want you to break-in their cylinders. I've always had good luck with new engines so far, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Richard
Last edited by hilltop170 on Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
hilltop170
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Post by hilltop170 »

Miles and Tom-

Which cylinder barrels do you perfer? Steel or Nickel-Carbide coated?

Richard
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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15A
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Post by 15A »

Had 6 new ECI's installed on my o300 last August. Have been using mineral oil since. Going with this, I highly recommend their product. Doing the research, I found there's good and bad with all the manufacturers. My friend had the head blow off his Millenium after a couple hundred hours, and another cracked. Absolutely no support from them. Cylinders were less than 2 years old! ECI tends to back up their product.
I, too, have had minimum oil usage from change to change. No more oily mess inside my cowl or on the belly. Compression is great! Runs smooth.
Works for me!
Joe Craig
'56 C172 Taildragger N6915A
'46 Aeronca Champ N65HM
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Joe-

Which cylinder barrels did you use? Steel or Nickel-Carbide coated?

Richard
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
User avatar
15A
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:03 pm

Post by 15A »

Richard-

I believe they are steel with the "CermiNil Process" which was applied to the bore. They came 2nd day air in 6 individual boxes, pistons & rings fitted & installed, (no need to remove), and the special of the month- 12 new plugs! Ordered from A.E.R.O., Bath PA. 1-800-831-5454.

Also bought a new baffle system from Alaska. Fit almost PERFECT, just a little trim on a mounting tab.!!!

6 new cylinders wrapped in a new baffle. All done in that area for a long time.

Could use a new prop...
Joe Craig
'56 C172 Taildragger N6915A
'46 Aeronca Champ N65HM
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

hilltop170 wrote:Miles and Tom-

Which cylinder barrels do you perfer? Steel or Nickel-Carbide coated?

Richard
Richard,

Although my airplane is not a hangar queen, my flying can be sporadic, so I chose the Nickel-Carbide cylinders for rust resistance. I think that break-in is going well. I haven't done a hot compression check on the engine yet, but the last "soft" cylinder (determined by pulling the prop through) disappeared somewhere between Redmond, OR and Kelowna, BC with about 17 to 20 hours on the tach. I followed ECI's break-in procedure, including the use of Phillips 20W50 from the start.

Miles
Miles

“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
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N3243A
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Post by N3243A »

Richard,

I am now at Anderson Lake strip in Wasilla but spent 8 years at Birchwood so it was no big stretch for me to figure out Hilltop strip since they are so close together.

Your engine builder is Mike Patterson? I haven't heard of him before. Where is his shop? I chose Jim Dittlinger of Alaska Aircraft Cyls. whose shop is just few hundred yards from Hilltop strip. He is also an ECI dealer. I chose the nickel barrels over the steel for corrosion resistance.

Bruce
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Miles, Joe, and Bruce-
Thanks for the info on your cylinders. The tech rep from ECI also recommended the nickel-carbide for lower oil consumption and rust resistance.

With the other features the ECI has, cylinder head temp probe boss, teflon padded rocker arm shaft ends, and exhaust valve rotator, I think it will be the Cermi-nil ECI Titans with the aftermarket O-470/520 style push rod tubes.


Bruce- I've heard of Jim Dittlinger but have no idea where his shop is, I'll have to look him up.

Thanks,
Richard
Last edited by hilltop170 on Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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