Experienced O300D Shop

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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Experienced O300D Shop

Postby TSRamsey » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:30 pm

Can anyone recommend a good A&P and shop for work on my 0300D? I am located in SC.
I joined this forum when I was about to buy a 170B but ended up buying a '65 172F.
Thanks,

Todd R
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby GAHorn » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:55 am

HI, Todd!

172 owners are Welcome and it might be surprising to know how many participate or are Members here!

What sort of “O-300-D work” are you anticipating? Trouble-shooting? (Free diagnosis ...otherwise known as “opinions” or past-experiences are available HERE if you share the symptoms...

Heavy repairs such as cylinder or accessory work?

Or overhaul/rebuild? (Sometimes it’s worth the cost of shipping to get it to one of the nationally-known reputable shops such as Western Skyways, etc.

WHERE exactly in SC are you thinking about?
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby TSRamsey » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:20 pm

Thanks for the welcome!

I've got the typical pushrod tube seal leaks. It is not very much but when I used fluorescent dye I could see some leaks around several tubes. Not sure how much is "Normal" but I seem to need a half quart of oil about every 4 hrs of flight to maintain 7 quarts.

I am in Greenville, SC.

Todd
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby GAHorn » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm

TSRamsey wrote:Thanks for the welcome!

I've got the typical pushrod tube seal leaks. It is not very much but when I used fluorescent dye I could see some leaks around several tubes. Not sure how much is "Normal" but I seem to need a half quart of oil about every 4 hrs of flight to maintain 7 quarts.

I am in Greenville, SC.

Todd


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O 300 D Rebuild

Postby drewsey4516 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:07 pm

My O300D is just shy of 1800 hours and the oil samples are showing metal levels that my mechanic is becoming concerned about. He is urging me to think about an engine rebuild or replacement. The very good engine shop near here has a 6 to 8 month backlog. Can anyone recommend an engine shop that they have had good luck with and has experience with O300's? Preferably one that has a shorter backlog. Also, my mechanic suggested that I consider converting to a Lycoming 0320 160 hp. Have any of you folks had experience with that conversion in a 170B? I like the smoothness of the O300 a lot and it's been very reliable until now. I'd prefer rebuilding or replacing it, but I'm not against a conversion if it would improve the airplane. Thanks for any thoughts you all can offer and I hope you are all weathering the virus well. Take care of yourselves! Mike Stahlman
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Re: O 300 D Rebuild

Postby GAHorn » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:10 pm

drewsey4516 wrote:My O300D is just shy of 1800 hours and the oil samples are showing metal levels that my mechanic is becoming concerned about. He is urging me to think about an engine rebuild or replacement. The very good engine shop near here has a 6 to 8 month backlog. Can anyone recommend an engine shop that they have had good luck with and has experience with O300's? Preferably one that has a shorter backlog. Also, my mechanic suggested that I consider converting to a Lycoming 0320 160 hp. Have any of you folks had experience with that conversion in a 170B? I like the smoothness of the O300 a lot and it's been very reliable until now. I'd prefer rebuilding or replacing it, but I'm not against a conversion if it would improve the airplane. Thanks for any thoughts you all can offer and I hope you are all weathering the virus well. Take care of yourselves! Mike Stahlman


What do you mean “metal levels that (your) mechanic is becoming concerned about”.???

Are you finding metal in the oil screen/filter? Or are you participating in a Spectro-Analysis program?

Personally, I cannot imagine why anyone would go to all the expense of a Lycoming conversion for an O-320 engine, unless that person liked vibrations and cracked cowlings and windshields while spending a lot of money to get a Franken-Cessna. Just my opinion. (Is he trying to sell you an engine he just happens to own/want to sell?). You’ll be buying a different prop, spinner, engine mount, etc while you’re at it.

And don’t forget that the. O-320-H2AD. 160 hp was the troublesome engine incorporating hydraulic lifters that resulted in severe spalling. Multiple service bulletins and airworthiness directives have been issued regarding this specific model.
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Re: O 300 D Rebuild

Postby Joe Moilanen » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:32 pm

drewsey4516 wrote:My O300D is just shy of 1800 hours and the oil samples are showing metal levels that my mechanic is becoming concerned about. He is urging me to think about an engine rebuild or replacement. The very good engine shop near here has a 6 to 8 month backlog. Can anyone recommend an engine shop that they have had good luck with and has experience with O300's? Preferably one that has a shorter backlog. Also, my mechanic suggested that I consider converting to a Lycoming 0320 160 hp. Have any of you folks had experience with that conversion in a 170B? I like the smoothness of the O300 a lot and it's been very reliable until now. I'd prefer rebuilding or replacing it, but I'm not against a conversion if it would improve the airplane. Thanks for any thoughts you all can offer and I hope you are all weathering the virus well. Take care of yourselves! Mike Stahlman

Hi Mike!!

When I had Premier Major my engine 3 years ago down at your airport, I did it because my oil analysis was showing hi levels of iron and I had 2550 hours since major. It was still running great and had good compressions. Jim said that he could find nothing that could be producing the high iron levels, all iron parts checked out okay... just saying. I've heard similar stories also. Does yours have an oil filter and have you cut it apart? I think the reason that mine may have showed higher levels of iron on my last sample is because it sat over at Twin Oaks for two months in the winter getting the Sportsman STOL kit put on and the cylinders may have developed a little rust and therefore the iron in the oil. I hardly ever go much over a week without flying all year long so normally my engine never sits for long. I never fly it less than one hour either. Has yours been sitting more than normal? Might want to sample it again just to make sure. Feel free to call me anytime! Teresa and I are just hanging out.

Joe
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby c170b53 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:34 am

8E5EBFD1-4700-4765-BDA2-6EAB20F07972.jpeg

. Ah, caught in flight last year, an obvious Franken-Cessna , 0-320 powered as well, unbelievably making its third year in a row Oshkosh approach. Not as smooth as a Conti but maybe more reliable ? :twisted:
Thanks George knew you were thinking of me :D
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby GAHorn » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:01 am

:lol:

That’s as-opposed to a “Franklin-Cessna”! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Which O-320 model does it have? And, why was it converted?
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby c170b53 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:43 am

160HP out of the Lycoming crate, a 0-320-B3B, straight mount ( extra vibrations :D ).
But back to the thread....
I’m no 0-300 know everything, far from it but I recently (last fall) took apart a high timer. Two of the lifters had begun to spall on their lifter faces ( I think I previously posted a pic) so there’s a source of metal Metal from the lifter and of course the rough surface will cause the top of the cam Lobe to erode . Which it did, likely the cam is toast.
Another source of metal might be the counterweights. Normally in operation they slide back and forth between a groove on the bottom of the counterweight and a blade on the crankshaft. Counterweight pins limit the travel but when the pin bushings wear and they all do over time, the counterweight travels too far and the ends contact the shaft causing damage and generating metal. If you have a high timer and with power changes you experience a vibration, in a normally smooth engine, it might be due to the counterweights making counterweight body to shaft contact. This damage was found on the same engine, likely the shaft is scrap as are the counterweights.
With lots of metal to metal contact occurring in any engine, the design engineering is truly amazing in producing reliable engines which remain reliable for as long as they do.
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Re: O 300 D Rebuild

Postby DaveF » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:44 am

Mike, don't believe everything you read about Lycoming engine conversions. :wink: Those of us who have 'em love 'em. That said, a conversion is far more expensive than an O-300 overhaul. Definitely overhaul if the stock airplane does what you need. That's assuming you even need an overhaul, and from your original post it isn't clear that you do.
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby 170C » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:25 pm

Jim, if I remember my ride with you during the Bardstown convention, you have a cs prop and I could clearly feel the difference in acceleration on take off. Don't recall what your experience has been speed wise over an O300.
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby GAHorn » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:52 pm

170C wrote:Jim, if I remember my ride with you during the Bardstown convention, you have a cs prop and I could clearly feel the difference in acceleration on take off. Don't recall what your experience has been speed wise over an O300.


That is the biggest/best benefit of a Lycoming conversion, IMO,...the possibility of a constant-speed prop, which makes all the difference in performance.

The same can be had with the Continental IO-360 conversion (which I favor over the Lycoming) but both are expensive conversions, and neither increases the useful load or gross weight of the aircraft while both have empty-weight penalties.

The problem with the original Continental engine in these airplanes is that they only develop around 120 HP on takeoff due to the fixed-pitch propeller. This doesn’t exactly push you back into the seat.

Still, the airplane does a pretty good job considering we all weigh a lot more than we did in the 1950’s... It only needs about 1300’ of ground-run on the standard day at gross wt, and can land in about 800’, and it’s totally internal lubrications system (no external oil lines) contributes greatly to the Cont. reliability. (Sole exception being that damned copper oil pressure sense-line. Get rid of that ASAP, IMO.)

OP: I’m still curious what your mechanic means by “increasing metal”.
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby ghostflyer » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:42 am

Well I thought I would push into the conversation on engine conversions . I had a continental engine originally when I put my bag of bones together . On a hot day and high humidity , The aircraft wouldn’t drag the skin off a sick rice pudding . Trying to take off on a sandy beach was scary . A top end overhaul was carried out and “good pistons “ were supplied by the continental tech rep [long story ] and a brand new carburettor was fitted . A early 172 exhaust was fitted due to no new standard exhausts available . Wow , the old girl flew . [all legalities were covered ,sort of ] . It would out climb and had a higher cruise speed than a Cessna 172 with a 160hp engine . Then the aircraft was sabotaged [the continental engine was toast] and a 180 hp lycoming engine [brand new but with all Superior parts ] was fitted. The new set up was 35lbs lighter with a fixed pitch prop. Yes I am happy with the setup but do wish now that I have more horsepower. The engine components were statically balanced during assembly and then engine and prop were dynamically balanced .
Would I fit a franklin engine ? No way due to the lack of support and spare parts ,it was a good engine but time has over taken it. At least with continental and lycoming engines parts are easily obtainable . But saying that continental are not supporting the O-300 engine . Certain new parts are hard to purchase.
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Re: Experienced O300D Shop

Postby c170b53 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:50 am

Frank it does about 100 knots in cruise. Thought it did more until I had my airspeed o’hauled :D Have to agree with George, it’s an expensive venture, Lycoming conversions. I’d advise to stick it out with a Continental just for the smoothness as the performance fits the plane but I do like my present climb rate :D
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