Interior Refresh

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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DaveF
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by DaveF »

Beautiful!
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aaronhunley
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by aaronhunley »

Looks wonderful great job!

I am looking at upgrading our interior later this winter/early spring. How was the install of the Airtex products Seat Assemblies, wall panels, and carpet?
1948 170
N3815V
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by brian.olson »

Aaron - overall, we found the Airtex products extremely high-quality and easy to install. In practice I can appreciate that every aircraft is slightly different and requires more or fewer tweaks to get everything fitted to your level of satisfaction; ours was no exception.

The carpet floor slid in without modifications once the old carpet was removed (literally - 15 minutes and we were done). We did "not" glue the main carpet down as it is held in place nicely by the heel plates, kick panels, and back seat. The center assembly (flap lever, trim wheel, cover panel, etc.) does require you to glue the carpet down and we did have to do some minor trimming which took additional time. Take your time and it will look good.

Seats fit like a glove. We did some minor trimming to the foam at the junction of the lower and back portions of the seat as it was almost too thick to permit the seats to be bolted back together again. We spent more time fastening the material at the bottom of the seats than we expected to take, though that is time you will take no matter what product you use. Guestimate for you on the seats: let's call it 6-8 hours each for the pilot and co-pilot seats to strip down the old ones, paint the frames, and then install the Airtex product. Back seat was an additional hour or two in addition to the above.

Pilot and co-pilot kick panels and door panels dropped straight in; they were a little thicker than the ones I pulled out of the plane and thus required the screws they provided for installation. Overall we spent about 2 hours per panel. The back panels did require a fair amount of trimming to get them to fit around the door jam and window but the way that Airtex constructed the panels it enabled us to easily do it by peeling back the fabric on the edge to be trimmed, trimming the plastic backing, then re-stretching the material back over the trimmed edge and securing with the contact glue they provided; let's call it 4-ish hours per back panel. It did take time and attention to detail but once you figure it out it's a simple process.

The headliner was well-constructed but a royal p.i.t.a. (nothing to do with Airtex). Still not entirely happy with the way we installed it. Total time on that was about 10-12 hours to take the old one out (including removing seat belts and trim and performing a detailed inspection of the aircraft frame underneath it) and another 12-16 to put the new one back in (including re-install of trim pieces and seat belts).

Some advice: take the time at the start to order the fabric, design, etc. that you want. They will send you a fabric sample kit ahead of time. Draw out any designs or stitching patterns that you want and email those in. We worked with Dodd (Airtex president) and he was available at every step for advice. While we didn't have any show-stopping issues, they did encourage us to call as-needed for best-practice guidance.

Wish I could give you guidance on how much total time we invested, but so much of the time was in prep (i.e., stripping and painting trim, seals, door windows, stripping out cement, plastic prep work, etc.) that it's difficult to completely isolate the Airtex install portion from the rest.

Hope that helps. Feel free to reach out once you start moving forward. I'm certainly no expert but happy to share our personal experience and learnings.
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
swixtt
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by swixtt »

Hi Brian, i'm looking for some seals for the door... i've read more than one review on them and the windows seals and they weren't very positive. i'm seeing the same product on spruce site from aircraftdoorseals where you got yours. are the seals holding up well? is the windows frame seal foam or a rubber material. thanks for any feedback.
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by brian.olson »

Both sets of window and door seals are holding up great. They are still in very good condition, everything fits well, and I can report zero air leaks at this time.

Specific to your question regarding the window seal - they are a high-density black foam of some type with self-adhesive backing.
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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interstellardust
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by interstellardust »

After wasting 4 years trying to find fabric to match my original interior, I'm probably going to order an interior from Airtex. I have a few questions though...

I see you have the aluminum heel plates. Did you put them over the sewn on Airtex heel plates or did you get them to delete them?

I see the door and kick panels are attached with screws. My original door panels have no screws. In fact I have no idea how to remove them. How did you get the old ones out and what do the screws go into?

The pattern for Airtex carpet does no appear to have cutouts for the rectangular inspection plate in the tunnel. My 55 B also has one along with 2 round inspection cutouts in the back floor. How did you handle the cutouts?

The seating of the pilot seat looks taller with the new upholstery. Being 6'6" tall. I have enough trouble looking into the wing root as it is. Do you really sit up taller now or is that photo an optical illusion?

Nice color combination. Is that Nutmeg with Barley and Sand? I'm thinking Oak, Tan or Elk with Sand.

I appreciate your writeup. Airtex claims they provide installation instruction, but I would sure like to see them before I shell out $4,000. They are not online.
Bill Garnett
1955 Cessna 170B N2974D
bill@interstellardust.com
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GAHorn
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by GAHorn »

Bill,... not the interior discussed... but I"ve seen scuff plates installed both ways... set OVER the existing vinyl scuff pads... and set in -lieu of them. The ones in my plane are SS instead of aluminum.

It's common for OEM "kick" panels or sidepanels to be installed using crossed-wire "clips" and the panels are removed by simply pulling them away from the sides/doors. Those clips can usually be re-used, but some installers use uphostlery washers and screws, … and some have even used Velcro successfully.


Carpet can be velcro'ed down to avoid having individual cut-outs for inspection panels. The tunnel is usually a separately cut piece of carpet, either glued or velcro'ed.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by brian.olson »

Bill:

Thanks for the questions. I'll try to answer as best I can; let me see if I can address your questions in-line.
interstellardust wrote:After wasting 4 years trying to find fabric to match my original interior, I'm probably going to order an interior from Airtex. I have a few questions though...

I see you have the aluminum heel plates. Did you put them over the sewn on Airtex heel plates or did you get them to delete them?
A: those are the original heel plates that were in the plane. The Airtex carpet includes plastic "ribbed" heelplates almost like you would find with carpet protectors designed for automobiles. After installing the carpet I was worried my heels would get caught up on them, and after worrying (too much) about how I was going to cut the carpet and secure it, I just installed the aluminum heel plates right over the top of the carpet. Works great and I didn't have to cut anything.
interstellardust wrote:I see the door and kick panels are attached with screws. My original door panels have no screws. In fact I have no idea how to remove them. How did you get the old ones out and what do the screws go into?
A: True. The panels I replaced were held by screws. There were two "clips" just underneath the door latch that held the panel in place. The interior had been replaced previously so that only option I saw was to replicate the screws. I just - ahem - drilled holes into the aluminum door panel and then installed the screws. The door is hollow and I didn't hit anything important. Took about 30 minutes total per door, and they look good and function well.
interstellardust wrote:The pattern for Airtex carpet does no appear to have cutouts for the rectangular inspection plate in the tunnel. My 55 B also has one along with 2 round inspection cutouts in the back floor. How did you handle the cutouts?
A: you are correct. The carpet is easily cut to fit. I still need to make a cover for the front end of the tunnel, and there is plenty of carpet to cover it up. When it's done it is easily secured with carpet cement. With regard to the cutouts on the floor ... I struggled with this, too. In the end, I didn't actually secure the carpet to the floor (I toyed with cement, velcro, screws, etc.). With the heel plates installed, and the back seat over the top of the carpet, it's held in securely and doesn't budge. If you need to get to the access panels you can remove sections of the carpet at a time and easily access them. Or, at the time of annual inspection, with the seats out the carpet can be easily lifted out.
interstellardust wrote:The seating of the pilot seat looks taller with the new upholstery. Being 6'6" tall. I have enough trouble looking into the wing root as it is. Do you really sit up taller now or is that photo an optical illusion?
A: So, this is probably the biggest negative of the whole arrangement. I am 6'1, btw. I "think" the seat I recovered had the original foam, though it's likely the covering itself was not original (in fact, I'm positive - the original fabric was brown). The new seats have a slightly different seat form (they "cup" on the sides) and I would estimate they are approximately 1" taller than original. This doesn't both the clearance between my legs and the control yoke, but it does prohibit me from using a kneeboard. That said: the foam could easily be cut down 1/2" or even 1" and my guess is you would still have very good support. You could probably even ask Airtext to make them slightly shorter in height.
interstellardust wrote:Nice color combination. Is that Nutmeg with Barley and Sand? I'm thinking Oak, Tan or Elk with Sand.
A: Yes - you nailed it. The colors are wonderful. My wife picked them out, so I can't take any credit for them.
interstellardust wrote:I appreciate your writeup. Airtex claims they provide installation instruction, but I would sure like to see them before I shell out $4,000. They are not online.
A: There are some instructions - certainly enough for me and my wife to successfully install it. The most difficult portion, and the least documented, was securing the bottom of the seats. That all being said, when I talked with the Airtex staff (and the president himself helped me out), they were emphatic that their intention is for you to call them and have them step through things over the phone as you attack it. They are really patient with us first-timers.

BTW, if you get really serious about this, send me a PM with your phone number and I'm happy to discuss in greater detail over the phone with you and give you a taste of "reality" about what was easy, tough, and OMG. We're really happy we did the retrofit.
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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rschreiber
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by rschreiber »

I thought my plane was in pretty good shape until I started the process of removing my old headliner. There's evidence of past water incursion and nesting rodents. Unfortunately, about 50% of the metal headliner retainer assembly is corroded beyond serviceable repair. 170B IPC Figure 18, #41.

Does anyone have any good leads on sourcing these parts?

-Ryan
Ryan
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IA DPE
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by IA DPE »

mschlender has been selling some parts and treated me right on what I purchased.
1955 C170B N2993D s/n 26936
1986 DG-400 N9966C
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rschreiber
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by rschreiber »

Thanks for the intel. I pulled the parts off the airplane, did some corrosion treatment, and applied zinc chromate. Fortunately, things weren't as bad as they seemed initially. If I need a part, I will certainly get in touch with mschlender.
Ryan
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ghostflyer
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by ghostflyer »

My steel headliner bows were corroded very bad and had to be replaced. I tried every where . Used fibre glass blanks from fishing poles . Works great.
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GAHorn
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by GAHorn »

ghostflyer wrote:My steel headliner bows were corroded very bad and had to be replaced. I tried every where . Used fibre glass blanks from fishing poles . Works great.
Sounds “fishy” to me... but on a “scale” of one-to-ten... how did they “fin-ish” the headliner. Swimmingly, I presume?
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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rschreiber
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by rschreiber »

I'm half way through the Airtex headliner installation and wanted to add a few discussion items to this thread. Like Brian said, it is a major PITA. Despite Airtex's recommendation, I went with the vinyl headliner. As previously discussed, the fabric options have some ability to shrink, while the vinyl offering is not very forgiving of any wrinkles. The following was taken from my conversation with Airtex.

1) Install and center the bows in the headliner first. When installing the bow into the zipper pocket (170B), make sure you completely round the ends to avoid a puncture. Before installing the bows, I lightly sanded, treated with rust converter, and painted.

2) Start at the rear of the airplane and begin installing the bows in their respective clips. Cut a 1 inch gap in the bow pocket at each clip location to allow for some movement when stretching of the headliner.

3) Once all the bows are in place, head back to the baggage compartment and stretch the aft portion of the headliner into the retaining strip. Airtex recommended a small putty knife with the corners rounded off and the edges smoothed (the round edge saved me from a giant gash in the headliner at least once). A 1" blade worked great for me.

4) After the aft is secured, work your way back to the front of the plane and secure the headliner at the front of the airplane. Do your best to work out wrinkles as you go. What you see now is as good as it's going to get, so take your time to get as many wrinkles out as you can.

5) Work down each side and stretch as you go. You may need to make several attempts at each section to get things to work out. I found myself having to make relief cuts in the excess material as I worked around corners and curves, so keep the scissors and razor knife handy.

6) Pull the fuel gauge boots around the gauges and secure tightly with the provided string. If your wing root fairings are not off, you'll need to remove them to gain access.

7) Trim the excess headliner material and stuff it into the retaining strips with your putty knife. Before you cut and stuff, take a plain old office stapler and add a staple or two where the seams meet before you cut. This will help keep the seams from breaking down the road.

Honestly, once you get a groove going, things come together fairly quickly. I'd say Brian's time estimates are accurate, depending on how much time you spend cleaning things up before installation. Cutting the new foam insulation was a rather time-consuming process. I started out trying to fabricate one whole piece for each part of the roof, and quickly found out that the process took longer than necessary and wasted more material than I could afford to lose. Working piecemeal provided better results with less time and material spent. Cutting the headliner for the lights and seatbelts was by far the most nerve-wracking part of the process. Start small and continue expanding your hole until you have what you need. A sharp razor knife and some good scissors are your friend!

This was a really worthwhile project. The refreshed headliner looks great, and clearing out the old tired fiberglass insulation was a huge win for the longevity of the airplane, especially since mine had been waterlogged at one point and used as a nice comfy rodent nest for apparently many years.
Ryan
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior Refresh

Post by brian.olson »

Ryan - your description and assessment is spot-on! I think that your step-by-step will save the next person a great deal of time and potential frustration. I completely agree with you: as much as the process was a bit aggravating (not specific to Airtex, but to the headliner), it looks great once it is done. Please join me by raising your right hand and reciting "may I never have to do that again" three times. Congrats!

Brian
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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