Interior Refresh

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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brian.olson
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Interior Refresh

Post by brian.olson »

Folks - as part of our interior refresh on 62C this summer, my wife and I will be stripping the paint off all of the exposed interior trim pieces and then priming and re-painting. I'll be removing the seats, carpet, headliner as part of the project (will be replaced with new Airtex products). Some of the trim pieces are removable from the airframe (including doors), some can be safely stripped in place, but there will areas of the interior trim pieces that butt up against windows (front windscreen, the side windows against the window frames, etc.) that I cannot separate. I'm trying to determine how to best protect the windows from damage from the stripper. The best advice my online research has provided is to use aluminum tape applied to a couple inches in from the window edges, covered by aluminum foil and another layer of tape, as protection from the stripper.

Those of you whom have hiked this trail before me - is there any specific guidance you can provide to me regarding how to adequately protect the windows during the stripping process? Are there other areas of concern in addition to this that I might be missing?

Looking forward to your insight and suggestions.
Last edited by brian.olson on Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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GAHorn
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by GAHorn »

Are you certain you wish to strip it? Have you considered light sanding and over-painting? You can try it out on one of the removeable pieces to see if it covers it as you desire. (That's what we did when we re-did our Baron and it turned out beautifully. We also found a "vinyl paint" in a rattle-can from an interior shop supply that completely changed the color of the headliner so well that it looked brand new. Saved a bunch of time/money/work.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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nippaero
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by nippaero »

You need to determine what kind of paint is there in the first place. If it is the original lacquer based paint you won’t be able to use stripper. I had to remove the original paint in my airplane with thinner. Soak it in and lots of elbow grease. There are no shortcuts unfortunately. Just go slow and take your time.
Last edited by nippaero on Sat May 05, 2018 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
1952 170B
N8180A s/n 25032
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c170b53
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by c170b53 »

That's a great point; will the stripper, strip ?
How good is the glass or is that a bad question. :D
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by brian.olson »

Interesting questions, all. The previous owner, in an act of good faith, went after the trim with some enamel and a brush unfortunately. And while the coverage was complete, it's time for it to go. We removed two of the door jam pieces last week and tried a couple different strippers in order to find the one that works best (we started with the least aggressive and moved upwards to the point where the paint could be removed). The paint comes off very well. Unfortunately the "quality" of the application doesn't bode well for a light sand and a refinish, but that opinion could be successfully argued by those who have more experience than me. Once we determined that we could get the paint removed we were relieve but it left the question of how to protect the valuable windows from accidental contact with the stripper (no matter how careful I am, I can guarantee there will be slip-ups).

The windows are in good enough condition that I wish to keep them, especially the front windscreen. The front windscreen has been replaced by previous owners twice before and is in very good condition. The door windows were replaced once before are in "good" condition, and the rear windows let light through.

I'm looking at this project as "the big experiment" so I'm willing to try a number of approaches to find the best, least invasive, way of approaching this. We have time on our side and are in no hurry to rush things.

Attached are two photos, a before and an after showing one of the panels we removed (and then re-installed). The aluminum appears in very good condition. Though I have re-installed the two pieces, I plan on doing a test prime and repaint with the new trim color next weekend. We will be using the SEM line of Color Coat primer and paint and will have the ash trays re-chromed.
Attachments
IMG_0563 1.JPG
IMG_0551.JPG
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by GAHorn »

And leave those ugly white Cessna-produced placards in the trash can or hidden behind the glove box door. They are not required by anyone but the Cessna lawyers. (They came with the placard-kit we ordered when completing our annual on the 172C recently purchased and I refuse to install them where they are nothing more than a distraction to passengers and ignored by anyone who regularly uses the airplane. (Ex: why have a heated pitot warning in an airplane that has no heated pitot? Why have a "drain the fuel or die" warning in view of passengers when it simply detracts from a pretty interior and it's a prescribed pre-flight activity already?)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by brian.olson »

A quick update on the stripping process. Pulled the pilot's door off the plane on Sunday and spent a few hours Sunday afternoon tearing it down. You can see (1) the poor condition of the door seals, and (2) another example of the brush-applied paint that we are removing in the "before". We removed as much of the old seal and adhesive as we could. My aircraft has the aluminum "grips" that are also holding down an edge of the seals, so I bent them upgright and then made an executive decision to remove them completely with a Dremel. The new seals will not require the use of the grip strips. We stripped the door down and after some hard scrubbing were rewarded with a nice clean surface. You can see a sample of the new seals in the attached photo.

I still need to sand around the window itself and do some touch-up work around the window latch, but at that point we'll be ready to prep for priming and painting. I did order a new pilot and co-pilot window and u-channel from Great Lakes as well as new window seals from the same place I got the door seals; all should be here on Monday. Figured since we had gone this far ... why not? Still working up the courage to make a final decision on replace vs. don't screw it up. We're going to work on the co-pilot's door this weekend and by that time I will probably down a nice Scotch or two, pound my chest a little, and then tear into it.

Sent the 4x ash trays out to a local auto bumper shop to be re-chromed. They also work on kitchen and lighting fixtures, door handles, etc. in addition to bumpers, and the quality of their work looks excellent. Hated seeing them painted and if we're going to the work of refurbing the trim, some nice shiny chrome will be a nice accent. Anticipating about a three-week turnaround. Thankfully, the plane can still fly without ashtrays installed.

Our paint arrived yesterday. We're using SEM products (no product pitch intended) and selected a top coat color that will compliment the interior my wife picked out (we are still 2+ months away from receiving the interior kit). Ran one of the aluminum trim pieces we had previously stripped through the painting process (solvent, etching primer, color coat, clear coat) and am very impressed with the finish. My bride has a finer touch than I, and will "likely" take over future painting activities as pieces are ready (I say likely because it was made quite clear I am in no way, shape or form, permitted to paint anything. Past history follows me).

Lots of work, but a fun project for the two of us.
Attachments
Re-painted sample.JPG
Paint and fabric.JPG
Door seals - stripped.JPG
Door seals - before.JPG
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
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DaveF
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by DaveF »

Nice work! What are you using for door seals?
strangebird
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by strangebird »

Are you using SEM rattle cans for the paint? and which SEM products did you use?

Who is is doing your interior?
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by brian.olson »

DaveF - I ordered the door seals from aircraftdoorseals.com. They were recommended to me by Dodd at Airtex, where we ordered the interior kit. My research shows the seals are more expensive than other places I've seen referenced on the Assn but they really look high quality and have a good feel. They ran around $130 per door.

Strangebird - I'm using their aerosol cans (see attached photo). I neither have the equipment nor the expertise to do anything more fancy than that. The Color Coat product was primarily designed to paint over plastic and fabric, but their other color paint products didn't have the color choices that we wanted. I spoke with a technical rep at SEM and ran our idea past them, and they confirmed that if we prepped the aluminum properly, used an etching primer, and then finished with a clear coat to protect it, we should have a very good result. A better result would have been a two-part clear, per the company, but that wasn't available in aerosol. Just a side note, I had to order the paint through a distributor (I used Sherwin Williams Automotive Paint). Regarding the interior - we ordered a complete kit from Airtex and will do it ourselves. It contains all new foam and and coverings for all seats, door panels, baggage area, and headliner. Total cost was about $4k.

Again, not plugging a company or product here, just sharing what is working for us.
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Paint.JPG
Brian
1950 170A
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

When stripping the outside of my airplane I used the aluminum tape method nearly as you described. I don't recall using aluminum foil but heavy plastic. I was very careful to not get any stripper on the plastic and in fact, in most cases only got within a hair of the taped edge with the stripper. The tape and plastic was only there in case I sneezed applying the stripper or got bumped while scrapping it off. And of course it helped to seal the plastic windows from the fumes of the stripper which are also something to keep in mind.

Looking at your proposed door seal, I hope it works for you. These doors and door opening where not designed to have anything in the jam and in lots of cases there is no room for it. Unfortunately in other areas there is lots of room and it requires 3 layers to fill it. The original seal was thin and only laid on the inside face of the door and pressed on the outside face of the door jam.
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brian.olson
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by brian.olson »

Bruce - thanks for raising the concern about the seals. I may consider a more temporary installation in order to make sure the fit is good before doing the final adhesion. It was a pain to get all of the old adhesive off the door and I would hate to go that far down the path before determining the product they recommended wasn't going to work. I'll report back -
Brian
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by johneeb »

Brian,
From the for what its worth department, we (my brother) and I just put those exact seals on the doors of his 180 and they work out really well. I found that trying to line up the outer edge of the seal with the outer edge of the door gave the nicest finished appearance. The supplied silicone grease makes the doors, with the new seals, close easily.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Brian, what I would do is have the door without any seal. Make sure your happy with the position of the door in the opening. Worn hinges cause the doors to sag. You can refresh/overhaul the hinges and there may be some sliding of the upper hinge, ie slotted mounting holes in the fuselage from a mechanic with a file in the past.

Once satisfied with the position, carefully look a the spacing all around the door. On my doors (several of them not just one) there would not have been enough room for the leg of the seal you have, to fit between the door jam and the fuselage jam in the back top, yet at the back bottom the same seal wouldn't even be touching. (One door I had I could actually slip my pinky finger through the bottom aft corner when the door was closed. ) Then look at the front of the door. On mind I'd have to double or triple the thickness of that seal in a few areas to close the gap.

All this miss fitment I don't believe is miss fitment at all. Cessna never designed the door to be sealed in the jam area. It was designed to be sealed between the door flange and the recessed area for the flange in the fuselage. The original thin V seal fit that bill nicely and I haven't seen a seal like it made today. The seal seen here: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... 30#p133356 being the closest to original.

Hope you have better luck than I've had.
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GAHorn
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Re: Interior trim paint stripping - guidance appreciated

Post by GAHorn »

I've sometimes successfully addressed sagging doors by simply changing the upper/lower hinge pins to a slightly different gage pin... The gage difference may be only a few thousanths' but will affect how the door swings. (Assorted different gages available due to different mfr's at the aviation sections of Ace, True-Value, Tractor Supply, etc.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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